← For-Profit Administrators and Teachers: Part Two

Pointless Comparisons

April 12, 2011, 3:43 pm

Last year, for the first time the total weight of American citizens exceeded the total weight of cattle in the U.S. This has apparently come about as increasingly overweight Americans are eating more pork and less beef.

We learned recently that the total amount of energy consumed every day by people updating their Facebook pages exceeds the total annual energy consumption of Luxembourg.

And last year the total amount of debt held by Americans in their credit-card accounts was exceeded by the amount of outstanding student-loan debt.

OK, so we made up the first two. But really, does anybody have a handle on what the proper ratio of cattle weight and human weight is, or of energy consumption by server farms and landlocked European nations? Or of credit-card debt and student-aid debt? According to the Federal Reserve, credit-card debt has fallen significantly since 2008. Is education debt subject to the same forces or different forces? Are more people going to college? More people who rely on assistance to pay the bills? Have people learned that it’s better to take federal student loans than to rack up high-interest credit-card debt while they are in college? Or are more and more students really getting into situations that will threaten their futures?

There are many serious questions about the magnitude, the sources, and the remedies for problems with student debt in the U.S. Answers to those important questions are not advanced by tossing around meaningless statistical comparisons.

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larry316

I remember a story about the foolish man who was granted one wish. He wished that he would not be able to say anything foolish again. Of course, he was never able to speak again. I think the elimination of pointless comparisons and bad stats would silence too many people. This would lead to them not feeling validated and upset that their rights to free speech were being violated.
raza_khan

We love being fed numbers – data. I am not sure what we are going to do with the data. It used to be printed and now it is stored on computers and flash drives. Other than that, much of the data has no relevance these days.

I have yet to read a meaningful follow-up report (10 year follow-up – wishful thinking, right?) as to what changes have been implemented based on the data and not just one-quick fix.

Raza
__________________
Raza Khan, Ph.D.
saasaa

As a 27 year Financial aid veteran I have seen more than my fair share of financial aid stats. Needless to say the early ones, 1975-1990, did not have follow up. I can only imagine that the stats we have seen for the last 20 years will have the same result. My learned and humble opinion is that they are meaningless/useless and tell us exactly what we already know from experience. I know that more students are going into debt because grants are harder to come by because I have the raw data at my fingertips. Who needs a statistic when I have the raw data.
22115691

I think you’re being hasty in characterizing this as a meaningless comparison. Credit card debt, and the difficulty of managing it, is something that a great many Americans can relate to and understand. Calling out the fact that student loan debt has now outpaced credit card debt puts the scale of the problem in perspective for the lay person. I would be very interested to hear you argue in favor of more credit card debt for greater numbers of Americans. The fact is that we save less than other countries, and this is an economic risk for us as a nation – as the recent recession illustrated quite dramatically. All debt contributes to this problem, even education debt at relatively lower interest rates.
mkant69

While people have an amazing fascination with milestones, this particular milestone is not meaningless. When student loan debt exceeded credit card debt for the first time in June 2010, it clearly demonstrated that student loan debt is a macroeconomic factor. It has a small, but growing impact on the economy. (Total annual student loan payments are now approximately 0.4% of GDP.)

This milestone, as well as the soon-to-be-exceeded $1 trillion milestone for total student loan debt outstanding, also serves to draw attention to the serious questions about the causes of student loan debt and the consequences of this debt. For example, news media coverage of credit cards still outnumbers coverage student loans by a factor of two to one, even though student loan and higher education issues have greater implications for the country. Google Trends shows that web searches concerning “credit cards” still outnumber searches concerning “student loans”, although the gap has narrowed considerably. (See http://trends.google.com/trends?q=credit+cards,+student+loans&sa=N) However, if one restricts the data to the United States, searches concerning “student loans” now exceed searches concerning “credit cards”. (See http://trends.google.com/trends?q=credit+cards%2C+student+loans&ctab=0&geo=us&date=all&sort=0)

The fascination with these milestones has also presented a great opportunity to educate students about financial literacy and smarter borrowing.
tee_bee

Wow. When this news broke and Spanier indicated his “unconditional support” for the AD, I figured “he’s outta there” pretty much right away. There was absolutely no reason to make such an unequivocal statement of support before having the facts. Maybe he misspoke. Whatever–regardless of his popularity, he’s gotta go.
davi2665

The important question that needs to be answered is “did Spanier and Paterno know that there was a report that Sandusky was observed by a graduate student molesting a minor?” If they were informed, even after the fact, and did not report this to the authorities for thorough investigation, then they should be dismissed, even if there are not prosecutable criminal offenses. Molesting a minor is not a trivial infraction that can be swept under the rug in order to protect a football program, even at the mighty Penn State. It is difficult to believe that something this serious managed to escape the incredibly leaky academic grape vine at Penn State, and only now emerges at a much later date. It stretches one’s credulity that the top level people could even begin to claim “plausible deniability.” No wonder the Penn State board is upset- this is a terrible blemish on their reputation, and if they try the same stonewalling “rope-a-dope” that the president tried, they will be hung out to dry as well.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jr-Clark/100002835268274 J.r. Clark

Joe Paterno is equal parts Roman emperor, Il Duce, and Godfather. Spanier cancelled Paterno’s press conference today because Paterno intended to defiantly challenge reporters asking if he would resign or retire. The coach plans to dig in his heels and refuses to leave.

In 2004, when the university president suggested Paterno retire, the coach refused.

Unfortunately, Paterno will go out the way most dictator-types do: in disgrace.
greeneyeshade

It’s hard not to react with disgust to this situation. Once you read the attorney general’s report, the depth of the depravity and scope of Sandusky’s behavior hits like a freight train. This is a very sick man and everyone who actively or passively protected him needs to go.

Turning over a CEO, CFO and head football coach at an institution known for its football program will be a major institutional shake-up. No doubt there’s very little else being talked about on campus. The bigger they are….
rtmyers

Where is the leadership in this situation? This is clearly child abuse at its most basic and despicable level. Sandusky and Paterno were as close as brothers. This stinks of the Catholic Church and the enabling of criminal behavior.
sand6432

Another question to ask is, did Paterno and Spanier know about the campus police report filed in 1998 detailing an incident at that time for which Sandusky apologized to the mother of the victim. And assuming they did (as it is extremely difficult to believe they did not, as Sandusky was then still a PSU employee), would not a further incident in 2002 have raised a red flag for them and led them to do much more than they did at that time? It should have been clear by 2002 that there was a pattern of behavior here that necessitated doing more than sweeping it under the rug.
cliftonw

Tragic for everyone involved.
chemmilt

Looks like some at Penn State are heading to State Pen.
RKGriffith

According to the grand jury report, the graduate assistant told Paterno about the molestation the day after the assistant witnessed it. Paterno’s response was to tell the AD. Neither the assistant nor Paterno called the cops. They both disgust me.
wchristie

It would appear that Spanier has to go for committing the one unpardonable presidential sin: He allowed his Board to be blindsided. There’s no excuse for that.

Paterno’s case is less clear, and I don’t think there is enough information available yet to draw firm conclusions. I’m no Paterno fan; but if he told his supervisor everything he knew as soon as he heard it, as some reports suggest, then he had a right to expect that his supervisor would pass the information to the proper authorities and see that proper steps were taken. Paterno is, after all, a football coach, not university general counsel. That said, Paterno also has a moral obligation to follow up later and ask for reassurance that the matter was being dealt with appropriately. We do not at present have enough information to draw accurate conclusions. I hope that the Board will ask very specific questions and then take firm action based on the facts,not on reputation or popularity.
westone

From Spanier’s PSU official bio: “He holds academic appointments as professor of human development and family studies, sociology, demography, and family and community medicine.A distinguished researcher and scholar, he has more than 100 scholarly publications, including 10 books, and was the founding editor of the Journal of Family Issues. A family sociologist, demographer, and marriage and family therapist….

Glad he is such an expert on family issues and therapy!
wchristie

Have to be a little careful here. The assistant should have told Paterno and the cops. He was a witness. Paterno should have told the assistant to tell the cops (we don’t know whether he did) and Paterno should have told the AD, which he did. But if Paterno had gone to the cops based just on hearsay, and if the allegations had turned out to be false, then Paterno could have been charged with defamation. I hate to be put in a position of defending Paterno, and I don’t mean to defend him. But I do think we should suspend judgment on the degree of his culpability until more facts come out.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Kinneman/100001287451555 Jon Kinneman

I don’t know how the board could claim to be “blindsided” by this. News of the investigation was published in the Harrisburg Patriot-News in March 2011. It seems more like the board was hoping that Paterno’s demigod status in Pennsylvania would continue to protect Sandusky and make this issue just go away. More disturbing is why Sandusky still had access to the university’s facilities while being investigated.
icbomber23

What a number of people have missed, as you’ve pointed out, is the very distinct difference between a legal and moral obligation.

Here’s the bottom line: at Penn State, Joe Paterno is probably the most powerful man on campus. He may not admit that publicly, but it’s most certainly the case. (This is not unique to Penn State, naturally)

Do people not believe that, had Paterno taken a more active role in the issue, that it could have been stopped sooner? You think, if Joe Paterno had called the Pennsylvania State Police and said, “I’ve just had a member of my staff tell me something incredibly sick and disturbing” that it would have mattered that he didn’t follow letter-of-the-law protocol? This is a living legend who heard about the kind of acts that our society is uniformly appalled by. Paterno’s apparent lack of response is staggeringly disappointing
goldenrae9

I would suggest reading the grand jury report.

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf
greatexpectations

A portion of the inertia in this story is based on whether Paterno acted or did not act appropriately. Lesson learned from this highly visible case: universities should unequivocally state in handbooks and policies and codes of conduct: if a criminal activity is reported to you, call the police. Period. The law can deal with the legality and the university has eliminated any doubt or culpability.
fruitysudz

Before they “clean house” I think it’s important for them to interview the people involved to hear their story. I’d really hate to see Paterno get sacked when he reported the incident to his superiors right away. It was not Joe’s job to investigate this, and he should be given the opportunity to leave with the class he’s brought to Penn State for the last 46 years. I would be very angry if the board were to have a knee jerk reaction and not speak with Spanier and Paterno directly. They deserve at least that much.
wchristie

I’ve been in a somewhat analogous position. I once had a student come to me and allege that to her certain knowledge another student was dealing drugs on campus. I urged her to call the police, and I also called to police to ask for guidance. The police made it very clear that they did not want to hear from me. They had to hear directly from the witness. They also made it clear that they did not want any names from me. For one thing, I would have been defaming the named student if the allegations were untrue. Of course, I have never been a campus legend. But however great Paterno’s moral obligation, he had also to be careful how he carried out that obligation. Once again, we just don’t have enough information to draw firm conclusions about Paterno. I do think the Board can get the necessary information, and I hope they get it and act on it properly and firmly.
wchristie

I did. Page 8 of the report makes it clear that Paterno discussed what he had heard with the vice president who supervised the University police. Since Penn State is a public institution, the University police are a state law enforcement agency. That discussion clearly discharges Paterno’s legal obligation. I still hold that we don’t know enough to decide whether he discharged his moral obligation.
torshi

Yes — this has been the talk of Centre Co. for months. The board’s claim of being blindsided is puzzling, unless they mean “humiliated,” but the stage was set for that to happen long ago.

Paterno’s age makes him more vulnerable than he would be otherwise.

The dominant tone of the dozens of reports I’ve read is outrage, and that’s understandable. But these stories are not conveying the very deep sense of betrayal felt on campus and in town.
icbomber23

I understand what you’re saying, but my post, (hopefully) was not meant to say that Paterno’s word meant everyone just goes to prison. However, Paterno making a call certainly would have spurned the wheels of justice into action much quicker and hopefully, much more thoroughly.

Even in your response, you pointed out a difference: You called the police. Paterno did not. Even if the police had given Paterno the same response you got, you can bet there would have been a better response from them if the call comes from Joe Paterno. I’m not trying to diminish your role, I’m just saying that I believe things like this are handled differently when people of enormous power are involved.
nacrandell

The idea that the sports department dictates university policy is scary. The incoming president for the University of Alabam tied his salary to $1.00 more than Bear Bryant.

Paterno has a history of supporting his coaches rather than students. For years he supported Rene Portland, who reworked scholarships if she thought a woman basketball player was a lesbian. Despite numerous complaints, and defections to other schools, he supported her.

He may be the winningest coach in the league, but he’s not the child and student friendliest.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046035154 Francene Botts-Butler

The Board should have been notified of the pending charges whenever the President learned of them. It does not bode well for the President that the Board members heard about Mr. Sandusky’s arrest from family members or from listening to the radio. I believe Penn might have a visit from the Office of Civil Rights and other agencies in their future to address these allegations and the fact that when Joe Paterno reported the incident that there was no investigation. Also, was Sandusky still utilizing Penn satellite facilities even after he was required to turn in the keys? These actions don’t pass the smell test.
goingcrazy1

I went to Penn State. Being a “Penn Stater” has been an enormous part of my identity for a log time. I am so perplexed by what has occurred, and everyday new information makes it harder and harder to maintain my faith in what had always been regarded as such a “morally” run football program. I just really hope that the students who are on the main campus right now are able to hold their heads up high and focus on their studies. I can only imagine what this must be doing to them.
rebek56

Eliminate big-time sports at purported institutions of higher education, and you lessen the power and influence of people like Sandusky.
grendel

Perhaps the biggest takeaway from many of these sex abuse stories is that large, powerful institutions, including not only the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts but also colleges and universities, are extraordinarily bad at policing themselves. That is why law enforcement should always be involved, automatically and as a matter of course. Administrators and coaches — who are professionally and financially invested in the reputation of a school — do not, and should not, have any latitude in deciding which issues are worth investigating.
11280282

An additional issue that has not been posed so far is what did the Board of Trustees know, when, and what action did they take? One must question to what degree the Board is capable of rendering a series of action decisions in this matter and shouldn’t an external entity be investigating the situation at Penn State beside the Attorney General’s Office and not the Board?
bscmath78

The article states, “the U.K. ranks just 15th among the 30 OECD countries when it comes to the numbers of people who have higher-level skills.”

This seems an odd criterion given that population and history can distort the numbers.
A much more meaningful evaluation is the % of UK post-secondary graduates aged 24-29 and 30-34 earning an annual taxable UK employment income above “the £35,000 earnings threshold” that is supposed to be applied to UK migrants.

The BBC says, “Prime Minister David Cameron says he wants to reduce annual net
migration to ‘tens of thousands’ from the current level of around 250,000.”

However, unlike migrants there should be no exceptions “The government has responded to the concerns… by exempting PhD-level jobs from the new pay threshold for settlement.” What could be a more damning indictment of the shoddy future offered Ph.D.s. It is damning that so many supposedly “skilled workers,” not just Ph.D.s make below the threshold.

Even if the threshold is not applied to migrants it seems an excellent starting metric to evaluate what are actually “higher-level skills” and the results of universities and government funding. Of course, the threshold needs to increase each year to reflect inflation.

“Sauce for the Goose, is sauce for the Gander.”

Please see the February 29, 2012 BBC article, “Immigrants ‘have to earn £35,000′ to settle – from 2016″
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17204297
bscmath78

elie_s_dad, thank you for your points. The scenario that you describe seems to have been more a Wall Street phenomenon. Having UK grads go to Wall Street, US Management Consulting firms or other foreign employers doesn’t really help the UK taxpayer. One of the early spurs for the move of physicists was one of the cycles of Ph.D. gluts and downsizing of US research, especially with end of the Cold War, the downsizing of US government labs, the downsizing of US corporate research (IBM, AT&T and others) and the killing of the Superconducting Super Collider in 1993.

The former South African, Emanuel Derman went from Feynman Diagrams to Financial Engineer in a process that he partly describes in his book “Models Behaving Badly.” But in those cases you’d expect them to be getting somewhat more than £35,000 a year, don’t you think, which would qualify in one of my metrics above.

An open question about the Royal Society report is what is meant by “non-Science” jobs. If like Derman you apply mathematical, statistical and physics tools and methodologies, you are doing something different than if you are a currency trader or a bond salesperson.

In your own case of applied math, I would count you as having a Science job if you use part of your applied math tools, methodologies or techniques even if you are working managing quality control at a factory using Statistical Process Control techniques or using Operations Research techniques to improve productivity/production etc. There is no problem with using Science in Industry (though I would think you would be best off doing starting that at the Masters level or earlier) or doing research in Industry. I don’t know how the Royal Society counted or defined non-Science jobs.

The £35,000 threshold is a crude, one dimensional metric, but it does reveal something, in addition to being government blessed number that will be applied to others.

It is very telling that “The government has responded to the concerns… by exempting PhD-level jobs from the new pay threshold for settlement.” It is especially interesting that they appear to set NO threshold, which implies there is no limit to how low you can pay a Ph.D. in the UK. It seems designed to ensure lots of low-cost foreign competition from non-UK citizens who could have graduated from Cambridge or Oxford with a Ph.D.