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Debating Same-Sex Marriage

March 16, 2011, 10:20 am

In the mid-1980s, few Americans had ever heard of the idea of gay marriage. Those who had been paying close attention might have remembered a trio of cases in the early 1970s in which gay partners had gone to court to seek the right to marry.  In Baker v. Nelson in Minnesota in 1971, Anonymous v. Anonymous in New York in 1971, and in Jones v. Hallahan in Kentucky in 1973, the courts upheld the traditional concept of marriage as between one man and one woman. The idea of gay marriage at that point had no legal traction.

By the mid-1980s, however, the topic resurfaced as a theme in law journals, which have often served as a seedbed for novel and speculative legal theories. Alissa Friedman, for example, published “The Necessity for State Recognition of Same-Sex Marriage:  Constitutional Requirements and Evolving Notions of the Family” in Berkeley Women’s Law Journal in 1988. William Eskridge’s influential essay, “A History of Same-Sex Marriage,” was published in the Virginia Law Review in 1992.  Among other things, Eskridge critiqued the idea of more radical reformers who posed what he called a “marriage-is-rotten” argument and favored abolishing it rather than opening it up to gays.  Eskridge also viewed his essay as something that “undermines various strategies essentializing marriage around concepts such as procreation sand gender.” And he turned to the analogy of laws that once banned interracial marriage as “the best” argument for ending the ban of lesbian and gay marriage “abruptly.”

Eskridge was certainly right that the analogy between laws prohibiting blacks and whites from marrying and laws restricting marriage to heterosexual couples proved to be powerful to the minds of jurists and, in time, to many members of the general public. Indeed, the “civil rights” case for same-sex marriage is deeply dependent on this analogy, and the 1967 U.S. Supreme Court case, Loving v. Virginia, that put an end to the last of the old miscegenation laws is the precedent that has appeared front and center in all subsequent judicial findings in favor of same-sex marriage.

The concept of same-sex marriage may have had some advocates in earlier generations.  Eskridge clearly thought so. Much of his lengthy essay is a search for precedents with a great deal of attention devoted, for example,  to an institution called “brother making” that the Church offered in the Middle Ages. But the real significance of Eskridge’s work and that of other law professors was their crystallization of a civil-rights-based theory in favor of gay marriage.  The theory did not lie untested for long.  Eskridge was one of the attorneys who represented Craig Dean in his suit (begun in 1991) against the city of Washington DC, for denying Dean and his male partner the right to marry. The suit failed, but it clearly sharpened Eskridge’s and other pro-gay marriage lawyers’ sense of the terrain. That theory quickly gained enough ground that the U.S. Congress decided to act preemptively to stop it.  It did so by passing the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), signed into law by President Clinton, September 21, 1996.

At that point, few Americans took seriously the notion that same-sex couples would achieve popular support for the right to marry, but a broad segment of the public worried about an activist judiciary and an adroit plaintiffs bar that could advance the gay marriage agenda despite popular opposition. The Congressional majorities in favor of DOMA were lopsided and bipartisan. (The Senate vote was 84 to 15; the House vote was 342 to 67.) The immediate stimulus for the bill was the expectation that Hawaii might have been on the verge of creating a legal form of same-sex marriage. DOMA defined marriage as a relationship between one man and one woman and specified that no state could be required to recognize a same-sex union authorized in another state.

A lot has changed since 1996. In the fifteen years since DOMA passed, gay marriage went from a speculative and distinctively fringe idea to an article of faith for many Americans who have bought into the concept that same-sex marriage is a fundamental matter of civil right. On February 23, 2011 Attorney General Eric Holder sent a letter to House Speaker John Boehner declaring that the Obama administration, which had been pursuing a tepid defense of DOMA in federal court, would henceforth sit on the sidelines. He wrote:

The President and I have concluded that classifications based on sexual orientation warrant heightened scrutiny and that, as applied to same-sex couples legally married under state law, Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional.

The movement to create a new institution of gay marriage has not, of course, been wholly successful. For the most part, it has arrived by judicial imposition, as it did first in Massachusetts (In Goodridge v. Department of Health, 2003) , and before that in the halfway step of Vermont’s “domestic partnerships,” (following the Vermont Supreme Court’s decision in Baker V. Vermont, 1999).  When put to a ballot initiative in California in November 2008 (Proposition 8), the idea that marriage should be restricted to one man and one woman passed with over 7 million votes (more than 52 percent). That law is now under court challenge. Last August in Perry v. Schwarzenegger, U.S. District Chief Judge Vaughn Walker ruled that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional. His ruling, however, has been stayed by the Ninth Circuit pending appeal. The case could go to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The Academic Conversation?

The debate over gay marriage ought to be considered one of the central social issues of our time, and indeed for many Americans—left and right—it is. It deals with a question of basic social relations within and between generations and I find it perfectly sensible that advocates and critics of gay marriage should both see it as a matter of urgent concern. The perspective that seems less sensible to me is the one which dismisses the controversy as a bore or nuisance: the idea that when it comes to marriage, all we are talking about are private choices that are no one’s business other than the parties directly involved. That’s an atomistic view of society. Marriage, whatever else it is, is a social institution. People marry because it means something beyond a private choice, and we have good reason to concern ourselves with that broader meaning.

One might think on that basis that higher education would be at the epicenter of the debate—that we could turn to the university to hear both sides (or all sides) making their best case.  Unfortunately that’s not how it has worked out.  Rather, the academic discussion has been dominated by those who view gay marriage as a civil rights issue. Those who argue against gay marriage haven’t been entirely silenced, but you have to look pretty hard for their words. One source is Lynn Wardle’s edited volume, What’s the Harm? Does Legalizing Same-Sex Marriage Really Harm Individuals, Families, or Society? (2008) which gathers together arguments on both sides.  The unusual thing in this book is the inclusion of academics who dissent, on more or less conservative grounds, from the prevailing pro-gay marriage position. David Blankenhorn’s The Future of Marriage (2007) offers the most extended liberal critique of gay marriage position, and Blankenhorn was notably the star expert witness who spoke in defense of Proposition 8 in last year’s trial.

The voices of dissenting academics are underrepresented in this conversation, mostly because dissenters know that they will be subject to pretty extreme verbal abuse if they speak up. The National Association of Scholars has never taken a position on gay marriage but I assume its membership, if polled, would probably lean in favor of same-sex marriage. But before I came to NAS as its executive director and then its president, I published a handful of articles on the topic.  As a result I still get occasional hate mail and occasional I-wish-I-could-speak-out-too-but-I-don’t-dare letters. I don’t discount the apprehensions of the latter.  A hazmat suit is standard apparel if you choose, as an academic, to wonder whether same-sex marriage should be viewed entirely through the lens of civil rights. This is an instance where passions tend to crowd out civil exchange, and a good many academics join in the vituperation. But on the principle that a genuine conversation shouldn’t be forestalled by expressions of indignation or by intimidation, I want to register two points.

The Triumph of the Academy

First, the astonishing rapidity with which gay marriage has gained legitimacy in the eyes of the courts, the media, the entertainment industry, and a large segment of the public owes a great deal to the academy. The movement for gay marriage obviously did not arise exclusively within academic circles, but its early success was built on theory and rhetoric crafted first by law school faculty members whose work was amplified by faculty members in women’s studies and several of the social sciences. The crafting of gay marriage as a proposal for social reform, of course, connected with the organized interests of many activists outside the academy, and I mean to take nothing away from their energetic advocacy. Yet it is impossible to imagine this ultra-fast progression from speculative theory to judicial fiat absent the role of activist professors.  It was within the academy that the argument that “marriage” should be seen through the lens of the civil rights movement was assembled. And the arguments that propelled gay marriage through the courts in several states were grounded in the published work of academics who succeeded in keeping the focus almost entirely on questions of how gay partners were denied access to legal benefits enjoyed by married heterosexual partners. This work has heavily influenced in the judicial decisions that took gay marriage from an eccentric fantasy to a legal fact.

The success of the gay marriage movement stands for many Americans as part of the larger political polarization of the nation in which the universities have played a significant part. Polls routinely show significant differences in the attitudes towards gay marriage of people over and under age 40. For instance, an April 2009 New York Times/CBS poll found, as the New York Times put it:

31 percent of respondents over the age of 40 said they supported gay marriage. By contrast, 57 percent under age 40 said they supported it, a 26-point difference. Among the older respondents, 35 percent said they opposed any legal recognition of same-sex couples, be it marriage or civil unions. Among the younger crowd, just 19 percent held that view.

Such polls point to what is probably demographic destiny. As the bearers of this view replace the baby boom generation, it seems nearly certain that they will sweep aside what is now a popular majority opposed to gay marriage.

This change can be celebrated as a victory of enlightened opinion—or regarded as one of the unfortunate consequences of the estrangement of American higher education from core Western values and traditions. But either way, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that the academy has had an influence in rolling out one of the largest and most sudden attitudinal changes in Western history.

More to the Story

The gay marriage debate, dominated by “civil rights” argument and rhetorical condensations such as “marriage equality,” has been reduced for many people to an intransigent stand-off of only two parties: those who advocate for gay marriage as a civil right vs. those who have religious objections.  Are there no secular arguments against gay marriage worth considering?

Here’s one.

The current issue of Science has a report by a team of researchers led by Kim S. Hill and Robert Walker, who have examined the extent to which contemporary hunter-gatherer bands are comprised of close relatives. They found that fewer than 10 percent of people in a typical band are parents, their children, or siblings. The finding runs against a widely held view that the solidarity and cooperation that are deep characteristics of human society arise from the shared kinship of the members of the band.  The most vigorous advocates of that view are evolutionary psychologists, who I expect are poring over Hill and Walker’s data.

The Science article has already snagged attention beyond the realm of people who specialize on hunters and gatherers, or even human evolution.  The New York Times reported on the story—twice within a few days,  Nicholas Wade in “New View of How Humans Moved Away from Apes” (March 11) emphasizes that the data supports a view that humans learned to cooperate with each other by keeping track of more distant kin.  And Wade devoted a second story,  “Supremacy of a Social Network,” (March 15) to a theoretician, Bernard Chapais at the University of Montreal, who posits (in Wade’s words) that “the pair bond was the pivotal event that opened the way to hominid evolution.”

Meanwhile, the libertarian journal Reason has also notched the Science report, with an essay by Ronald Bailey that sees the implication of Hill and Walker’s findings as “Trade Made Us Human.”  As Bailey summarizes it, “trade and the division of labor are hallmarks of human cooperation,” and the Science article nicely buttresses that proposition.

It strikes me as pretty notable all by itself that a technical anthropological study would register so strongly with the liberal New York Times and the libertarian Reason. And perhaps even more strongly that both are right.

What if anything does this have to do with same-sex marriage? Well, it has much to do with the nature of marriage per se.  Social anthropologists were pointing to the fundamental rules of human society more than a century ago when the British anthropologist Sir Edward Tylor (1832-1917) declared that human groups over the long course of prehistory must have been time and again faced with the choice “to marry out or die out.”  That is to say, the glue that held human groups together, at least during the tens of thousands of years in which all humans lived by hunting and gathering, was marriage.  We are unlike chimpanzees and all other primates in that regard.  They don’t form pair bonds.  We do.  And the kind of pair bonds we form entail marriages between men and women at some degree of social distance.

Anthropology’s picture of this situation only deepened as we grew to know more and more about a greater variety of societies.  The late French anthropologist Claude Levi Strauss saw the “exchange” of women between groups as the fundamental facts that made human culture possible in the first place.  Of course. It is not just women who are exchanged:  it is men and women in an endless cycle of reciprocity that weaves together the participants in all human societies.  Or almost all.

Marriage Plasticity

These days the mention of the universality of marriage in ethnographically-informed circles will quickly get you a lecture on some highly exceptional cases.  Top of the list are the Na, a matrilineal tribe of farmers in southwest China near the Burmese border.  The Na appear to be singular in their strong preference for avoiding marriage altogether.  Children belong to their mother’s household and lineage, and Na conceptualize their society as lacking both “husbands” and “fathers.”  The story is a little more complicated than American enthusiasts for all-things-Na typically let on.  Na are perfectly familiar with marriage but regard it as an inferior expedient for lineages on the verge of dying out.  And Na culture is rife with ghostly remnants of marriage, including some of the world’s strictest taboos against brothers and sisters being left alone together.  But the real point in citing the Na—the only point really—is to underscore that “marriage” is not an absolute necessity in human society.

And indeed it is not.  Human societies can (with difficulty) do without marriage.  They can also bend, stretch, redefine, and repurpose marriage in a bewildering variety of ways.  Given this plasticity, it is a relatively easy thing to assemble a superficially plausible case that “marriage” is entirely a matter of social conventions.  It is, as William Eskridge argued back in 1992, “socially constructed.”  Eskridge, not so incidentally, drew on various anthropologists to make his point, including a well-known essay by Edmund Leach, who held that “marriage” meant so many different things in so many places, we anthropologists should conclude that it is just a term of convenience.  In light of this, why shouldn’t we regard gay marriage as just another among the seemingly limitless choices that we create for ourselves?

That question, left hanging, may be the end of the matter.  It clearly was for Judge Vaughn Walker in the Proposition 8 case.  Certainly there is no law of nature that prevents humans from trying to create a social order based on a conception of marriage that includes same-sex couples.  But there are other questions that are also left hanging.  The view from classic social anthropology is that the family reproduces itself.  (It is a view ironically shared by many anti-family feminists and queer theorists.)  Girls and boys learn to be mothers and fathers by growing up as daughters and sons.  We are from the start—from the moment of birth—caught in a web of kinship.  And the strands of that web are woven of sexual complementarity.  The family in turn is part of the wider reciprocity created and continually recreated by the marriages that connect us with wider circles of kin.

The Essentials

When we learned to live on bases other than hunting and gathering, these arrangements came with us and they have not—at least until now—faced an existential challenge.  Contemporary empirical studies like the one by Hill and Walker continue to deepen the picture of how fundamental sexual complementarity, pair bonding based on it, and the links created by marriage have been to human flourishing.  Perhaps we have reached a point of social organization where we can discard these principles like an old set of training wheels and discover a giddy new freedom to arrange ourselves in unprecedented ways.  The ethnographic record (contrary to Eskridge and others) supplies no real evidence that any society has succeeded at this venture prior to the experiment now underway in Western Europe, Canada, the United States, and a few other places.  There are plenty of instances of societies more relaxed about homosexuality than the West has been (until recently), but the proposal to redefine marriage as sex-neutral really is a radical departure.  That might give us some pause if we are inclined to weigh the known record of human experience as a relevant datum.  If not, not.  The argument that we should indeed weigh the ethnographic record, however, comes not from cranky conservatives but from  gay marriage advocates themselves.  Eskridge’s famous essay opens with an account of a nineteenth century Zuni elder who was a berdache (a cross-dressing homosexual) “married to a man.”  The Na are only one of hundreds of tribes whose customs have been hauled into court (literally) to testify to humanity’s capacity to create workable social arrangements that accommodate alternatives to heterosexual marriage.

I welcome those ethnographic excurses, though I think the data hasn’t been especially well served in its translation to social advocacy.  It looks to me that marriage in the sense of durable, socially-recognized links between men and women centered on the reproductive family still has a pretty strong claim to being the foundational institution of human society.  Foundational, however, doesn’t necessarily mean omnipresent or indispensable.  It is clearly possible to create social order without marriage and invent institutions that perpetuate themselves on bases other than familiar reproduction.   I hesitate to name what some of these are in view of the inevitable rhetorical response that “Wood likened gay marriage to X,” when Wood did nothing of the kind.  But let’s say that reproduction outside marriage has never exactly favored the flourishing of women; almost always disadvantages quite a few men as well; and has a long record of extremely adverse consequences for children.  Perhaps we can have a system of same-sex marriage that somehow navigates around these problems, but we shouldn’t approach the matter as though these are imaginary obstacles.  Marriage, for better and worse, has provided humanity its best means of channeling our sexuality, domesticating our wildness, embedding us in community, and nurturing our children.  Will same-sex marriage fit itself to that pattern or undermine it?   Because the pattern itself is based on the privileged position of heterosexual reproduction within matrimony, I suspect same-sex marriage will end up as the exception that hollows out the rule.  ”Marriage equality” means marriage lite, marriage without its capacity to do the heavy lifting.

This observation surely falls within the broad category of arguments that Eskridge believed he had throroughly refuted under the heading as cases of “essentializing marriage around concepts such as procreation sand gender.”  I recognize “essentializing” as a term of rhetorical dismissal among those whose epistemology precludes the possibility that institutions that have intrinsic variety and variability can also have a core meaning and purpose.  But there are pretty powerful reasons for thinking that marriage really does have a core function underneath all that variety and historical contingency.

In simplest terms, marriage organizes human sexuality in a manner that gives rise not just to stable pair-bonds, but to broader ties of kinship.  The people in those hunter-gatherer bands who are not parents and children or siblings to one another are almost all in-laws, cousins and uncles and aunts of various degrees–and they know it.   I know this sounds like an empty argument to contemporary Westerners who are used to thinking about marriage as what the sociologists Anthony Giddens called “pure relationship,”e.g. focused inwardly on the married couple itself and their satisfactions.  But even in the atomized West, marriage also remains profoundly a matter of sexual complementarity within family ties.  The differences between fathers and mothers are, contra Eskridge, essential, and they extend outward to other relatives and inward to the child.

We might well succeed in displacing the family as we know it and replacing it with “families of choice” or some other rubric for non-natalism.  For that matter, I am not clear that we can now stop ourselves from carrying this radical change forward.  But I am not optimistic about the consequences.  It looks to me that we are turning away from something basic in the way human societies organize themselves.  In the hope of achieving a greater equality we may put at risk the means by which the rough kind of equality and cooperation became possible in the first place.

Before someone else says it, let me acknowledge that this is a speculation on my part.  But it is no more speculative than the vision offered by advocates of same-sex marriage.  And it has the advantage of being based on a few millions years of human evolution rather than a few decades of law review articles.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Jones/1145232206 Bill Jones

    It seems to me that heterosexuals defining their relationships solely by the genitalia of those involved might clue them into one of the reasons heterosexuals have been such failures at marriage.

    Peter Wood, even through his endless rambling in this piece, really does nothing more than rehash the old rhetoric that just does not fly in today’s world.

    All in all, I would say Peter Wood is a gentle bigot who, thankfully, is likely over 50 with limited time left to poison future generations.

    Advocation for unequal treatment of citizens as the moral position is a faulty, faulty hook to hang one’s morality hat on, Peter.

  • chuckkle

    Wood’s argument depends on side-stepping the existing foundation of marriage in the secular modern state: establishing legal relations in relation to property. Minimally, to have marriage, the state must register it (and in the US allows religions to conduct ceremonies, as well as assigned secular agencies such as courts, but you still have to register). In many other places, such as much of Latin America, people expect to have both a religious and state wedding.

    Wood’s apparent belief that same-sex marriage doesn’t allow for the “right kind” of reproduction and nurture and kinship relations seems so peculiar to me because it seems based in a complete ignorance of real living same-sex marriages and families. Peter Wood, please take the time and make the effort to get to know some people practicing this. A little field work, a little research, could go a long way to clarifying these issues for you.

    Chuck Kleinhans

  • barbarapiper

    Dr. Wood’s essay makes a number of leaps from observations to conclusions, without identifying any clear links between them. His ability to make these connections is impressive, but he leaves open the possibility of arriving at very different conclusions with a leap in another direction.

    For example, Dr. Wood observes that marriage organizes human sexuality, but he does not ask precisely what organizational principles are enacted by marriage vis-à-vis sexuality. I know he is not implying that placing homosexual individuals in opposite sex marriages will transform them into heterosexuals. Nor does heterosexual marriage extinguish homosexuality.

    I assume that he is alluding to something such as David Schneider’s point, in his work on kinship in the U.S., that the nature of marriage in America is “exclusive sexual access”. Marriage “organizes human sexuality” by making it exclusive: in the U.S. you can do anything you want with anyone who is not your spouse – have dinner with them, buy them presents, go to a movie – except have sex with them. For that we reserve the term adultery, and make it grounds for divorce. That doesn’t mean that adultery isn’t common, simply that it violates something we understand to be fundamental in a marriage. And the notion is consistent with the evolutionary psychologists’ notion of pair bonding, even among the many cultures that allow polygamy: a man retains exclusive sexual access to all of his wives (polygyny being much more common than polyandry…).

    The problem for Dr. Wood seems to be not the exclusive or the access, but the “sexual”. Is it not preferable to impose the same exclusive sexual access on same-sex couples through marriage? Why should marriage not impose the same organizational forces on gay sex as it does on hetero sex? Marriage doesn’t make human sexuality: it structures its expression. It can structure the expression of same-sex sex as easily as it structures the expression of opposite-sex sex.

    Similarly, bringing reproductivity into the issue of same-sex marriage is a red herring. As many people have pointed out, there are a lot of childless heterosexual marriages: they are still marriages. Why not draw the opposite conclusion: if the model institution of “marriage” is so good for so many things, why not use that model to convert same-sex relationships into the same good things? (Or the reverse: as the comedian said, why shouldn’t gay couples be as unhappy as the rest of us?)

    Finally, dismissing same-sex marriage as merely a civil rights issue is especially grating to those whose sex disqualifies us for a drivers license in much of the world, and who had to gain voting rights in the U.S. precisely as a civil rights issue as recently as the memories of our grandparents. The ethnographic record is just as easily used to justify the beating of women to death if they disobey husbands, or simply to deny women access to men’s clubs: if a modern analogue of hunting is a group of men out on the golf course, we certainly wouldn’t want women to intrude any more than our hunter-gatherer ancestors would. (Maybe that’s why so many women professional golfers are assumed to be lesbians?) Will we see an essay from Dr. Wood arguing that equality for women in America is “merely” a civil rights issue that is not supported by the vast ethnographic record and by our understandings of human social and cultural evolution?

  • chuckkle

    news item:

    More than half of Americans say it should be legal for gays and lesbians to marry, a first in nearly a decade of polls by ABC News and The Washington Post.

    This milestone result caps a dramatic, long-term shift in public attitudes. From a low of 32 percent in a 2004 survey of registered voters, support for gay marriage has grown to 53 percent today. Forty-four percent are opposed, down 18 points from that 2004 survey.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/support-gay-marriage-reaches-milestone/story?id=13159608

    Chuck Kleinhans

  • jffoster

    But in every State where it’s been put to a referendum of the voters, it’s been defeated.

  • peterwwood

    The main conclusion I draw from having published this essay is that the “debate” in higher education over same sex marriage is as moribund as I described. It is perilous to make too much of posted responses, but for what it is worth, Bill Jones calls me a bigot and looks forward to my death; Chuck Kleinhaus indulges in his usual ad hominem; and Barbara Piper faults me, basically, for not endorsing the very premises that I was criticizing. Bringing reproduction into a discussion of marriage is a “red herring” because some heterosexual couples don’t have children? I thought I was pretty clear that marriage can be re-purposed for all sorts of things, and childless marriage for companionship, love, or convenience is one of them. Flightless birds are still well and truly birds, but discussing winged flight is hardly a red herring in ornithology.

    Likewise, I didn’t dismiss same-sex marriage as “merely a civil rights issue.” I pointed out that the campaign to win the right for same-sex marriage in the United States was founded almost entirely on a civil rights argument. That’s what the courts that have allowed it have said; and it is the central theme of what most Americans who support it say.

    Piper asks, “Why should marriage not impose the same organizational forces on gay sex as it does on hetero sex?” The question assumes the accuracy of what has been called “the conservative case for gay marriage,” e.g. marriage will limit and regularize the often promiscuous lifestyles of gay men (and to a lesser extent women). It is a hypothesis and it may prove true. I think the odds are very good that we will find out. The counter-hypothesis is that for many gays, marriage will prove to be a minor impediment or none at all to having multiple sexual partners, and the the advent of same-sex marriage as a mainstream institution will further weaken the already weakened ideal of sexual fidelity in marriage. In my view the second hypothesis is at least as likely as the first.

    I had dinner the other night in the West Village. At an adjacent table, four gay men were discussing the betrothal of two of them who had been together 18 years. One of the others jested, “You know what marriage means, don’t you?” Pause. “Monogamy!” Which produced a good laugh all round.

    Peter Wood

  • barbarapiper

    My apologies if I misunderstood the intent of your section “The Triumph of the Academy”, which I took to be critical of the propelling of gay rights issues through the courts and elsewhere as civil rights matters cooked up in academic circles. If you are not dismissive of the civil rights issues, I wonder why you felt it necessary to speculate on arguments for or against gay marriage that were NOT based on civil rights or religious convictions. If the civil rights issues are legitimate and sufficient, why did you seem so bothered that they were developed by academics? Your posting here are so unrelentingly hostile to the “Academy” that I did not take your subtitle “The Triumph of the Academy” to be warmly congratulatory.

    And your comments, including:

    “It looks to me that marriage in the sense of durable, socially-recognized links between men and women centered on the reproductive family still has a pretty strong claim to being the foundational institution of human society.”

    “Marriage, for better and worse, has provided humanity its best means of channeling our sexuality, domesticating our wildness, embedding us in community, and nurturing our children. Will same-sex marriage fit itself to that pattern or undermine it? Because the pattern itself is based on the privileged position of heterosexual reproduction within matrimony, I suspect same-sex marriage will end up as the exception that hollows out the rule.”

    sounded very much to me like you were enrolling the reproductivity argument, and thus my red-herring comment.

    Your comment that gay marriage might or might not lead to gay marital sexual fidelity is slightly puzzling. I would not expect gay marriages to be more sexually exclusive than opposite sex marriages, but one sure way to prevent gay marital fidelity is to prevent gay marriage. Again, if marriage is, as you proposed, the principle form of structuring sexuality for human societies, why deny that opportunity to same sex couples?

    And I’ll repeat my primary concern about your post. Use of ethnographic work on foraging societies to drawn conclusions about, or make prescriptions for U.S. society is an invalid move that anthropologists have routinely rejected for many years. This kind of argument has found new audiences in the evolutionary psychology crowd, but anthropologists have long recognized the fallacies in such leaps. Moreover, you introduce Kim Hill’s recent work as though it mattered to the gay marriage issue, and then introduce enough qualifiers about the nature of marriage — including your response here that it can be re-purposed for all sorts of things — to make it irrelevant. Here’s a proposal: “re-purpose” marriage to make it useful for promoting sexual fidelity and insuring legal rights of couples among gay men and women as well as among heterosexual men and women.

  • player2

    An amazing explanation of subtle extrapolations by promoters of same-gender civil marriage. And, as these promoters preach their philosophy or value system, and try to enforce it on the general public, the homosexual behavior has not only “come out of the closet”, as individuals of homosexual behavior claim is their nature, but it has ceased to be a matter of privacy, and is not trying to force itself in to the minds of the children that will form the next generation. All without substantial scientific scrutiny regarding the nature of homosexual behavior. Is it immutable, or is it simply radical and in vogue. If it were immutable, it would have been published already.

  • player2

    You can believe whatever polls you’d like to believe – that doesn’t prove anything. Polls are statistical (mathematical) analyses of interview data, and depend on certain assumptions, and how the questions were worded. Same-gender marriage is a crude subject for most people, and therefore affects the polling – not everyone wants to discuss the subject, and therefore remain silent – but only until they see their own rights being sidestepped to grant special rights to a social class that cannot be found. How do we identify people of homosexual behavior, except through a raise of hands? How many laws do we have that identify a social class by a raise of hands? If we cannot identify people of homosexual behavior, except by a private behavior, in essence, we cannot identify them at all for civil matters – because in the USA they have “right to privacy”. We would therefore have to extend the rights of motherhood to ANY pair of human beings that wish to claim it – and that’s allegedly about 1000 Federal rights. Where’s that money coming from?

  • 1SkyCaptain1

    It is quite obvious -to me- that same sex enthusiasts depend entirely on two arguments to bolster their claims that perverting what it is to be married is a civil right:

    1) No it isn’t

    2) So what

    History does not speak well of those nations from antiquity that were stupid enough to allow themselves to be taken over from the inside by a well healed horde of miscreants seeking to obtain absolution for their sins by mandating public acceptance of their perversion.

    Need more examples? Simply take a good look at the power structure of every professional organization that has come out on the side of these miscreants and you will see that they all have one thing in common; their hierarchy is loaded to the teeth with same sex enthusiasts.

    The APA, New York Times, ABC/Disney, MSNBC, CBS, NPR, CNN, Washington Post, Newsweek, Levis, and the ABA are saturated with same sex enthusiasts; they set the policy of their respective organizations; opposition to their design is career suicide.

    Our founding father put these people to death for a very good reason…

  • tuxthepenguin

    As is so often the case, it depends.

    If you want to get one of the very best jobs you have to come from a first-tier university, Ivy League or equivalent. Many of the top employers don’t even consider other graduates:

    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Oracle-Aims-at-BrandName-Schools-for-Recruits/

    “According to the e-mail, Oracle recruits “top candidates” for product
    development from MIT, Stanford, CMU (likely Carnegie Mellon
    University), Princeton, Wisconsin, Yale, Dartmouth, Brown, Caltech,
    Berkeley, Harvard and Cornell”

    “In addition, the e-mail continues, Oracle will consider “top
    candidates” from the University of Texas Austin, Duke, Penn, Georgia
    Institute of Technology (grad students) and “any top international
    schools,” it reads.”

    And we all know what graduate admissions committees at the top universities are looking for. I don’t know how easy it is to transfer from community college to a top university, but I think that if you can get into one right out of high school, you should probably go.

    Of course I’m not trying to discourage anyone. The most important thing is to have your priorities in order, be smart, and work hard. I’m just saying that the only path to a lot of good jobs and graduate programs is to get into a first-tier university.

  • teachingprof

    Let me shed some light on part of this problem: when my kids were in high school, we had to go in for the obligatory “Guidance Meeting” in their Junior year. I was working as a dean at the local community college, and that’s where my daughter was going to attend. When the counselor asked if she was going to attend college, I said

    “Yes, she will be going to the CC right out of high school, since I work there and the tuition is a benefit.” 

    He pressed on, “does she intend to earn a 4-year degree?”

    Well, at that time she was rebellious and the fact of the matter was that I was going to be grateful if she stayed enrolled at the CC long enough to earn a 2-year degree, but that was none of his business, so I said,

    “Right now we’re going to focus on Community College and we’ll see what happens after that – one day at a time, you know…”

    Later, I saw that he had written down “Student plans to attend a 4-year college / university”.

    Not long afterward, I was browsing my borough/community web page and found a link where they bragged about the % of their graduating seniors who attend college right out of high school (>95%), and listed a veritable “Who’s Who” of elite, Ivy League schools but no mention of the local CC.

    I was incensed that the high school would not acknowledge that my child (or obviously ANY child) would attend the local community college, and I think I understand why. It’s all about marketing the community, to which I want to say: “please report on how many of those students who wandered off to those elite-Ivies returned home in that first year? (a good number, and I know because I would either see them on the CC campus, or my kids would say “So-and-so came home and is taking classes at CC”)

    Hmph, hmph HMPH!

    Time for all of us to “get over it” on the name dropping. Time for a mass rebellion against paying tuition that is too high; time for more state and federal money to support the local, non-profit, community colleges and time for parents to “get over” the need to flutter their fake eyelashes and tell everyone in a stage whisper that “Byron got accepted into Brown/Yale/Vassar/Harvard…”  

    Sign me, “sick of all the Byrons and their mothers”  !!

  • clarinetsarethebest

    I went to a fairly prestigious university myself (although admittedly not one of the mentioned ones), and my junior year roommate had just transfered after doing an associate’s at the community college near her house.  She saved a ton of money (six figures off sticker price, easily) and wound up graduating with honors.  So it’s definitely possible.

  • robjenkins

    Hey, Tux. You say, “I don’t know how easy it is to transfer from community college to a top university, but I think that if you can get into one right out of high school, you should probably go.”

    Even if you had to borrow $100,000? I’m not trying to be a smart aleck. I’d honestly like to know what you think. If we’re talking about professional school–law, medicine, or business–I’d say go for it. But undergrad?

    Rob

  • jesor

    That e-mail is somewhat funny because my college is not on that list and I’m pretty sure we have alumni working at Oracle.  Granted, most probably held positions at Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Boeing, Dreamworks, or another “top tier” company first (or completed a graduate program), but we are by far not one of the “prestigious” institutions and half of our students transfer from the community college.   Big companies like to put out that sort of bunk in order to make themselves seem more attractive to both career centers at colleges – “look aren’t you special that we’re paying attention to you, we only hire the best so only send us your best students”, and colleges buy into it because it lets them borrow prestige from big companies.  The reality is much different for most of these companies, particularly in technology fields.  They’re fighting for talent as much as admissions offices are fighting for students.

    Ultimately the other thing it comes down to for most students is the basic math.   Let’s say your average 20,000 student “prestigious” undergrad institution places 200 students in positions with high end companies each year out of an initial entering class of 6,000.  Just calculating that first year, would any truly rational individual pay a $34,000 + per year premium just to have a 3% chance at those top tier jobs?  Multiply it out by 4 years and you’re up to over 130K for that chance, which by the way only exists and a benefit if those companies only hire from ”top flight” institutions. The reality of it is, most of our students are destined to be rank and file employees, even those from high cost colleges.   We do them a disservice to convince them that a $200,000 undergraduate education is going to help them be more successful in the long run than one that costs a tenth as much, especially when all of the data I’ve seen indicates that 3 years out from graduation, where a student attended has no statistically significant difference in a student’s income with very few exceptions (primarily for African American and Hispanic students where the salary difference was slightly higher)

  • teachfordamasses

    It’s probably not the “top-tier”-ness of the college per se that translates into top-tier entry jobs, but the fact that students at these very selective institutions are, by defiintion, themselves the top 1-2% in motivation and achievement (at the time of college admission.)  As has been said elsewhere, top universities certify the excellence of their students; they don’t create it.

    Sure, there are potentially excellent candidates coming from CCs/lesser colleges, but the baserate likelihood of superior prospects in pre-selected cohorts is so much higher that it’s not in companies’ interests to bother looking at them when they have hundreds of applications from the listed schools.

    And seriously, with respect to this article as advice to students, how many students are deciding between an offer from Princeton/Caltech/Yale and attendance at their local junior college?

  • mindnbodybuilding

    “And seriously, with respect to this article as advice to students, how many students are deciding between an offer from Princeton/Caltech/Yale and attendance at their local junior college?”

    um…a lot? http://www.aacc.nche.edu/AboutCC/Pages/fastfacts.aspx

  • mbelvadi

    Some people are brought up to believe that the answer to your 3% question is “yes”. This and tuxthepengin’s argument is yet another example of the mentality documented so well in the book, “The Winner-Take-All Society” which I highly recommend.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-McCrillis/1415266878 Michelle McCrillis

    As an enrollment counselor for a community college, and a financial aid officer, I have seen our graduates transfer to some fairly elite four year schools and graduate from them, and earn advanced degrees from them.  I have also seen my share of those whose parents were so proud of the sons and duaghters who were accepted at top flight schools only to have them on our campus after their third semester having become slackers and being bounced out.  Given the partnerships we have with both public and private four year colleges and universities where our graduates transfer to, the education we provide is a tremendous jumping off point.  One of the things we stress is that our costs for two years are far less than one year at these schools.  I wholeheartedly agree, we need to see that the *glorified high school* mindset of those who knock community colleges needs to be lost.  We are a viable, productive and less expensive option for those who cannot afford Harvard/Yale/Princeton/CalTech or choose to plan their futures with the savings of loan interest carefully and whose simple determination will make their futures their’s rather than drowning in debt.

  • rab60

    I am very sympathetic with students who need to watch their budget since I had to do that as well working part-time jobs through much of my undergraduate years. However, I would caution students to be careful as to which courses at the community college they transfer as prerequisites for their studies at 4-year universities.

    I have taught calculus for a few decades at a relatively large state-supported research university. I’ve seen many students who transferred credit for community college mathematics courses which were prerequisites for one of the courses Calculus I – IV at our university. Sadly, a much larger percentage of those students than usual did not pass the course. The prerequisite courses they took at the community college had the correct titles, but they simply were not prepared for some of the subsequent courses.

  • big_giant_head

    Wish I could double-like this post.

  • tuxthepenguin

    “Even if you had to borrow $100,000?”

    It’s tough to discuss such a big topic in a blog comment, but yes, if it’s a choice between MIT and the local community college, borrowing $100,000 is a good idea. When I talk to high school students I tell them to not major in education, fine arts, humanities, and several other fields. In engineering you are likely to see a premium of more than $3000/year in salary from the MIT degree.

    @chronicle-f9169c33f81d80618b124d7e72ad22d2:disqus : I’m not claiming you can’t get a good job or be successful if you don’t attend a first-tier university, but it does make your life easier. I am at a non-prestigious state university and have seen some pretty good students struggle on the job market. They are definitely at a disadvantage, particularly in a tough economy. The best grad schools won’t admit our applicants who have a 4.0 GPA, perfect recommendation letters, and good GRE scores.

    @chronicle-ce72be14026228e6dd59f738615e2b24:disqus : We’ll have to agree to disagree about whether or not the school actually plays a role. Personally the level of our courses is a joke compared to the level at a first-tier school. We hold the students’ hands and tell them they’re doing well and do our best to provide an enjoyable experience. It’s fraud, and there’s no way we provide them with the same educational experience. Moreover, the best students at my university do not have much interaction with other highly talented students.

    I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way, but as an academic, I will say it anyway. We get a fair number of CC transfer students who come in with a 4.0 GPA. The standards at some CC’s are obviously not very high. I feel bad because they are so far behind the other students in advanced undergraduate courses. Do they get less education in at least some CC’s? You better believe it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5OEBRMVCIRNOIQ2RLAMBZFAF34 Nedi Goga

    Ivy League should be excluded from this conversation as they are clearly at a different level. Their FA packages are generous and their students are super achievers. However, the rest of “B” and “C” level private independant schools just don’t provide the value they charge. There are several B-level schools in NJ whom charge 40-50K per year of tuition and board and their kids graduate with up to 150K in student loans.  

    Someone please show me how mathematically this students standard of living will be higher than if they had started off in CC and then transferred into this same exact school and graduated with half the debt.

    Furthermore, in order for one to move into a managment position of any sort these days companies prefer a graduate degree, hence, the value of an undergraduate degree has diminished significantly over the past few decades while it’s cost is up 300%.

    Current economic environment has only quicken this enivitable shift, it was going to happen anyway.
    The “Chivas Regal” effect mindset if its expensive its better is quickly fading.

      

  • condiment

    The author concludes: But perhaps as word continues to filter out that community colleges are economically viable options that won’t derail anyone’s career, we’ll see fewer of these student-debt horror stories.  

    Unfortunately, starting at the 2 year college 10 mins. from my town may derail your college career.  The school has a 13% graduation rate (3 years).  20 mins away is the state university with a 65% graduation rate (6 years).  My advice to the local high school kid who’s interested in earning a college degree and saving some money is to go to the state university and live at home.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5OEBRMVCIRNOIQ2RLAMBZFAF34 Nedi Goga

    Those numbers are misleading as many students only attend CC for a few semesters and transfer to that state state school without graduating CC. In addition, 40% of CC students attend school part time as they have full time jobs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1513621308 David Richard Wills

    Even before my involvement with community colleges I have been mystified about the public stigma surrounding attending one…it’s such a no brainier option for the long run.

  • condiment

    The graduation rate only reflects matriculated full-time students.
    Of those, yes, we do not know how many students may transfer after one year or less.

    But as someone who is very much involved in the life of the local high school, I can tell you that anecdotally very, very few kids are graduating in two years and transferring smoothly over to a four year college. Instead, many lose interest and drop out or down to part-time.  This does not save money.

    Sending the kid to the four year college straight out of high school would be the best bang for the money.  Living at home for four years would save over $40,000.  This is an option that some living in proximity to big state school should consider.

  • traneman

    I have mentored a young woman who went to a community college and obtained two associate’s degrees.  She graduated with honors and received a full scholarship to a top research university, where she just graduated with honors and was hired into a prestigious job.  So, she didn’t pay anything for the college degree.  Although I have only worked at what we still call “4-year” institutions, I still give advice to friends that it really pays to go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer.  The diploma will still be the same as the one’s earned by the other students who spent 4 years at the institution.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rexchristos Chris King

    One of the drawbacks for parents and students alike is the subject of credit transfer between community colleges and four-year universities, public or private.  I agree with the writer of the article that it would be far cheaper and wiser to go via the CC route to the four-year university of your choice if that university will accept all of the previous work toward the degree in question.  The universities in their own interests have put into practice incentives to draw students as entering freshmen, the result being mounting personal debt yet not having to worry about transfer credit problems.  Sometimes it comes down to the question of which thing are you more willing to lose in your college career: hard-earned college credits or money through long-term interest payments? 

  • jniehaus

    If every student went to community college for two years and then transferred to a four-year institution for the last two years, the four-year institutions would have to increase their tuition substantially.  There is a reason why community college costs less.  Upper level courses are smaller and usually taught by full-time faculty members.  The four-year institutions cannot offer the junior and senior year courses for the same price we now charge without balancing out the cost with freshman and sophomore students.  Going to community college for the first two years will only save money as long as few students are opting for this route.  Otherwise, the strategy is flawed.  I have not heard this issue addressed, but the fiscal impact will be substantial.

  • lmg0407

    As a CC graduate myself, I see both sides of the argument here.  I attended a good community college with excellent faculty who cared about the education of the students attending there.  This allowed me, as a returning adult student, to “pay as I went” for my first two years of college.  I got a transfer scholarship to a solid state school, and my undergrad degree cost me far less than it would have if I’d even started at the state school.  (I also completed a graduate degree at said state school.)  On the flip side, there are CC’s in my region that do not offer the quality of education I received, and I did have some credit transfer problems.  I am also not in a prestigious career by any means – I have a good job and make a decent buck, but I am far from among the elite.  So, I agree with the poster who said “It depends” – on the CC in question, the student’s personal circumstances, and their aspirations.  Context is nearly everything in this debate.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5OEBRMVCIRNOIQ2RLAMBZFAF34 Nedi Goga

    If every student went to community college for two years and then transferred to a four-year institution for the last two years, the four-year institutions would have to increase their tuition substantially.

    Interesting. If you lose your customers because your prices are too high then you must increase prices to stay alive. Have you ever considered that state of the art dorms built on debt, facilities with granite tiles, mohagony doors, should be the necessary in order to provide a quality education.

    Take a look at the expensive “B” and “C” level schools and find out what their discount rate is. The shift tactonic plates is happening now. Their perceived value is diminishing quickly and CC is the only other alternative.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5OEBRMVCIRNOIQ2RLAMBZFAF34 Nedi Goga

    The graduation rate only reflects matriculated full-time students.
    You’re right. However, many of these students are ill prepapered and it takes them over a year to get out of remedial and developmental courses. Not to mention those who start off with a boatload of ESL courses. Not defending CC here just saying that the graduation rate is misleading.

  • missoularedhead

    Some of my best students when I was a TA in the UC system were transfers from the local CC. They were all slightly older, true, but they had a work ethic that the students who got in straight from high school didn’t have. 

  • nanprof

    Community colleges vary enormously, at least in my area.  (There are at least eleven that come to mind.)  Some send many students to our most prominent state university; some are glorified high schools, and not very good ones.

    CC’s are great for many students–they provide time to explore at minimal cost. Many of my state college students really belong there–they’re not yet committed to higher education. My transfer students swear by the CC experience.  (And some of them picked up job training along the way.)

    But do your research.  And sometimes it pays to enroll concurrently in two CC’s for different courses, especially when those are impacted (prereqs for nursing, etc.)

  • mickfan

    I fell into this trap once when I was honestly trying to help the person with a future job search.  It nearly resulted in a sexual harassment suit.  (The honest reason that he didn’t get the job was that the almost all-women search committee was ignored for the one man on the committee.  He wouldn’t even make eye contact with us.  Also, he stayed on his cell phone all day and was being held by security guards at the airport when we picked him up for abusing them verbally for losing his luggage.)  The candidate was a Latino, and we went into the search desperately wanting to hire him, since we had no Latino members of the department.  As a result of my honestly, I was accused of sexism and racism.  So, “it just was not a good fit” or “another candidate was more qualified,” blah, blah, blah. . . .is what I’ll always do in the future.

  • rogue_academic

    Indeed, your honesty is still a disease you haven’t been able to overcome. You conducted a search having a racist agenda (while undoubtedly paying lip service to “equal opportunity”) and fully deserved the outcome. Ironically, you were guilty as charged, but probably for the opposite reason, not the one accused of.

  • aristotle

    I wonder if a male candidate would also be expected to be “warm”?  Likeable, possibly, but I would expect not “warm”.

  • kconrad

    Wow–I’ve always had good experiences giving feedback to unsuccessful candidates. Often they are relieved to find that the person hired had much more experience or more relevant experience than they, and It helps them to not take it so personally. I have also had the pleasure of having a pool of truly outstanding candidates and wished I could hire each of them. In that type of case I’ve helped and encouraged them to look for other positions within my institution and happily, some of those good candidates are now my colleagues.

    I am also mindful of how much time and effort the candidates invest in the job search and interview process and feel as though I should respect that by talking with them if they desire.    

  • totoro

    We’re only talking about feedback for those that attended an on-campus interview. Here in Australia, SCs will give feedback if you ask especially if you say something like: “Yeah, well I didn’t think my presentation was good enough” they’ll tell you what they thought about it and how to improve it.

  • texasmusic

    I liked it for you.  So did a few others…

  • lucyndisguise

    The hiring patterns have changed greatly over the last 10 – 15 years, with companies tightening their recruiting efforts and focusing more on the top tier and Ivy League graduates.  In talking with  recruiters at Fortune 500 companies, they’ve been directed to focus on the top tier schools and Ivys.  The decisions as to where to recruit from are in many cases based on curriculum, focus area and the success of past graduates.  Having done recruiting myself, I saw many candidates passed over due to the school they came from.  It is unfortunate because there are many strong candidates from outside the top tier schools that will never get the chance to demonstrate their skills because their pedigrees were not from Ivy Leagues or top tier schools.

  • bugochem

    That’s called nepotism.  I have been a candidate in at LEAST two (that I know about) searches that were that way – they already planned to hire a trailing spouse and the whole search was a facade/ruse.  I was told that another job I applied for was nepotism of a different kind – a pre-selected friend of someone for a USDA job.  Pretty disgusting if you ask me. What ever happened to merit and competition? 

  • bugochem

    Sense of entitlement – you mean like tenure? 

  • bugochem

    What would be the harm in mandating feedback, other than simply to miff some egos who don’t like to be told what to do?

  • greeneyeshade

    Like the General Accounting Office, many university internal audit offices have expanded their quiver of expertise to include  IT specialists, federal contract and grant specialists and fraud examiners.  If the group is properly placed in the organization, i.e., a direct reporting line to the board’s audit committee, there’s no reason why an NCAA compliance specialist couldn’t be effective in that office.  Invariably NCAA violations require someone capable of “following the money,” so why not let such specialists work within a group that also has that expertise?  It’s a slam dunk.

  • Unemployed_Northeastern

    Selected quotes from The Education of Henry Adams (A Harvard Man):

    p. 54:  “The next logical step was Harvard College.  He was more than glad to go.  For generation after generation, Adamses and Brookses and Boylstons and Gorhams had gone to Harvard College, and although none of them, as far as known, had ever done any good there, or thought himself the better for it, custom, social ties, convenience, and, above all, economy, kept each generation in the track.  Any other education would have required a serious effort, but no one took Harvard College seriously.”
     
    p. 55: “It taught little, and that little ill, but it left the mind open, free from bias, ignorant of facts, but docile.  He knew little, but his mind remained supple, ready to receive knowledge.”
     
    p. 65: “The Harvard graduate was neither American nor European, nor even wholly Yankee; his admirers were few, and his critics many; perhaps his worst weakness was his self-criticism and self-consciousness; but his ambitions, social or intellectual, were not necessarily cheap even though they might be negative.  Afraid of serious risks, and still more afraid of personal ridicule, he seldom made a great failure of life, and nearly always led a life more or less worth living.
    p. 300: “if their new professor had asked what idea was in their minds, they must have replied that nothing at all was in their minds, since their professor had nothing in his, and down to the moment he took his chair and looked his scholars in the face, he had given, as far as he could remember, an hour, more or less, to the Middle Ages.
                    “Not that his ignorance troubled him!  He knew enough to be ignorant.  His course had led him through oceans of ignorance; he had tumbled from one ocean into another till he had learned to swim; but even to him education was a serious thing.”
     
    p. 302: “The number of students whose minds were of an order above the average was, in his experience, barely one in ten; the rest could not be much stimulated by any inducements a teacher could suggest.”
     

  • wattssal

    These are all great! Then there’s the one about “a university being a collection of feudal (or is it ‘futile?’) kingdoms connected by a central heating system.”

  • rbirnbau

    You can see view over 1,600 quotations about higher education – many, but not all, immortal – in the book Speaking of Higher Education: The Academic’s Book of Quotations, co-published by ACE in 2004 and now available from Rowman & Littlefield.  One of my favorites, from, John Masefield, is:  “There are few earthly things more splendid than a university. In these days of broken frontiers and collapsing values, when the dams are down and the floods are making misery, when every future looks somewhat grim and every ancient foothold has become something of a quagmire, wherever a university stands it stands and shines; wherever it exists, the free minds of men, urged on to full and fair inquiry, may still bring wisdom into human affairs.”

  • gauche

    “Of
    course there’s a lot of knowledge in universities:  the freshmen bring a
    little in; the seniors don’t take much away, so knowledge sort of
    accumulates.”  —Abbott Lawrence Lowell

  • jthelin

    This column is intriguing and interesting — but readers who want the real deal should read Bob Birnbaum’s 2004 book.  A little acknowledgement of Birnbaum would have be appropriate and appreciated, I think.

  • dtroop

    Mr. Birnbaum just chimed in above. Frankly I didn’t know of his book, which sounds like a good read. I’ve collected these piecemeal over the past couple of years.

  • 11301218

    Two of my favorites concerning research activity –

    “If we knew what it was we were doing, it
     would not be called research, would it?”
                         — Albert Einstein

    “Basic research is what I am doing when I don’t
    know what I am doing.”
                         — Wernher von Braun

    So much more healthy than how research is thought of now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jessedouglas Jesse-Douglas Mathewson

    I know it’s really tempting to include this Mark Twain “quote” in every similar post or high school yearbook, but serious Twain scholars agree that the final quote is 100% apocryphal.

  • jluchok

    Several thoughts arose from reading about this.  My first is that this is not 1990 and academics can no longer discuss issues only among themselves.  On one hand the internet gets their writing to a larger audience while on the other the jungle outside the walls of academia is a wild place.  This thought arose from the defense of the article saying it went beyond the intended audience. 

    As for the issue, where is line?  A child can become a burden at any time so if a 5 year old becomes an economic burden can the parent have the child killed?   What about a 4 year old, a 10 year old, a 2 year old? 

    I agree that threatening to kill someone when you believe in sanctity of life is contradictory.

  • mmullins

    Male philosophers discussing women’s reproductive issues.  Where are the female philosophers? Why do males always insert themselves into this conversation?  Pun intended. 

  • randalllott

    “Well, in all my years I ain’t never heard, seen nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn’t be talked about” – Stephen Hopkins in 1776 (1972).
    but Mr Hopkins was not engaging in a debate regarding the ethics of murdering children.  The dehumanization of children and the disabled is an abuse of academic freedom.  Like most eugenists, these nacissists never include themselves in the lower group.  Kevorkian himself clung to life despite having “assisted” so many others out of theirs.

  • erikfast

    I suggest that one pro-life argument that argues this point, based on reason, can be found here: 
    http://180movie.com/

  • boiler

    Why is this a women’s reproductive issue? They’re talking about infants of both sexes who have already been born, and who presumably have both mothers and fathers. Surely both genders have a claim on this question.

  • boiler

    I think Singer’s being disingenuous here. He characterizes the reactions to this article as the work of anti-abortion activists, ignoring the fact that the article is about infanticide. Many people who support abortion rights would find the argument presented in the article appalling — I certainly do, and I’ve voted Democratic for 40 years. For many of us, the idea that “merely existing as an innocent living human being is enough to give a being a right to life” is a basic premise of our ethical thinking. To dismiss the horror evoked by this article as an irrational reaction by unthinking conservatives is an act of deliberate ethical blindness. 

  • drj50

    The response by attack rather than argument shows that we in higher education have work to do — teaching critical thinking, respect for other points of view, etc. That does not mean that some ideas are not horrifying — it is about how we talk about those ideas and the people who hold them. 

  • maxbini

    Be careful of context – Singer was not arguing for this position (nor would he), rather he was merely pointing out the point of contention.

  • maxbini

    Should not such “basic premise(s) of our ethical thinking” be questioned?  And who are the “us” and “our” that you are referring to?

  • nullo

    Singer is right to point out that the article in question is possibly more interesting as an attempted reductio of certain arguments in favour of abortion rather than as an actual argument for infanticide on grounds of parental interests. That is also the line I take in my response to the article:

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2016772

    I do think it is a shame though that Singer has not taken this opportunity to at least sketch his own position on the issue: I would guess that Singer would think that, even though general parental interests such as the one discussed by Giubilini and Minerva may not be enough to justify killing a healthy newborn, killing an healthy newborn is morally preferable, other things being equal, to killing an heathly child or adult. 

  • jenevastone

    The following is a reflection that pertains to both of Mr. Bartlett’s posts on the JME infanticide article. While I cannot get myself (yet) to read the entire Journal of Medical Ethics article, the conclusions show how naive the writers really are about science, even medical science, and especially genetics. They write: “we do not think that in fact more than a few days would be necessary for doctors to detect any abnormality in the child.” 

    This is ridiculous. My own son was perfectly normal at birth, and had a normal development up until the age of 13 months. He then had a profound crash that presented as a classic onset of a metabolic disease. He was left profoundly disabled–wheelchair bound, tube fed, nonverbal, and with motoric impairments in his arms and hands that prevent him from successfully accessing a touch screen communication device. He is, his doctors think now, nearly 14 years later, locked in. We are looking into eye gaze communication systems in an attempt to reach him. He is, however, a lively, social child with a great sense of humor, despite his terrific impairments. In the ensuing 14 years, we have never been able to find the cause for his profound medical collapse, and he remains undiagnosed.

    Most neurometabolic disorders with implications for severe disability do not present at birth. In fact, many genetic illnesses are undiagnosed or they present months and years after birth. Autism typically presents around 18-24 months. In fact, much that can “go wrong” with a child is not visible within a few days after birth, including some types of severe epilepsy, which can have profound physical and cognitive effects on a child. 

    I love my son, but I have to acknowledge how his disabilities have limited our lives, including and most importantly his, at every level: emotionally, socially, financially. Would he be better off if he were euthanized? Would the authors of this article suggest it morally OK to euthanize someone who turns 15 in June? I find those untenable moral questions–and I don’t know how the JME authors would address those within the framework of ethics. 

    We are currently sequencing my son’s genome, looking for answers, especially answers that might provide clues to palliative care and treatments. While the costs of this are coming down rapidly, we had to raise $7,500 to do this. Even at such point in the future as insurance companies might pay for whole genome sequencing during pregnancy, it is naive to believe that that will enable parents to detect ALL possible genetic defects. For example, we are sequencing my son’s exome (the exons), which are the active genes, but the introns, which have been thought for decades to contain inactive genetic material, have now been shown to contain defects and transcription errors that cause disease and/or disability. And, besides, even when we get the list of defects, duplications and deletions for my son, we may not be able to successfully interpret them at this point in time. It will be information to keep on hand as we keep tabs on genetic research. Even should full genome sequencing be available in future years, parents will not be able to fully understand what every little hiccup in the genome means–each of us as individuals have individual genomes filled with such little blips, and most of us turn out perfectly normal. So how to decide to abort? In addition, these blips in our genetics are a simple byproduct of evolution–in 100 years, the human genome template will look significantly different than it does now.

    The other problem with articles like this is that disability will always be with us–it doesn’t matter what we do. There will continue to be children with odd genetic defects, birth defects, accidents, etc. When typical people make it clear that people with disabilities are not valuable and deserve to be euthanized on the basis of how their disabilities affect those around them, not on the basis of whether the person with disabilities enjoys or appreciates his or her own life, that is setting a cultural context that supports the abuse and neglect of persons with disabilities, let alone public funding for their medical care and education, all of which is (trust me) too expensive for any individual to bear.

    I’m working on a memoir about my son and blog frequently about these issues at http://jgirl3.blogspot.com. I am not a trained academic ethicist, but I do have a doctorate in another discipline, and I feel my experiences are valid points of discussion.

  • mamazee

    Thanks, Antsy
    That makes sense, that children have less rights until they reach the age where the majority of them can be responsible for themselves. But in these cases, we are balancing The loss of their rights with their protection. We limit their ability to drink to protect them from a vehicular manslaughter charge. We deny them the right to sex to protect them from pedophiles.
    In abortion, though, all their rights are negated with no protection to balance that loss. It’s pure aggression, and the negation of any rights they might be able to claim.
    In any case where humans have less rights (mentally ill, developmentally disabled, children), the burden of proof must be on the one who wants to limit the rights to prove that it only done to protect, not to punish, discriminate or kill wholesale.
    Slavery did not meet the burden of proof required and eventually it was abolished. History will judge us just as harshly for the genocide of 1/3 of our children (and rising).

    The world is a comedy to those who think; a tragedy to those who feel.

    - Horace Walpole

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Antsy-Kuhnwisse/100002159499682 Antsy Kuhnwisse

    It’s hard to say or do anything much, lately, that (once it gets around on the web) WON’T inspire some death threats.  A mom painting her son’s nails pink, or entering her toddler in a beauty pageant?  A dad shooting his daughter’s laptop?  A young woman arguing for contraception to be covered by insurance  …. ? They should be killed!  Die horribly!  Rot in hell! Wish I were there, I’d kill ‘em!

    Which, like the overused “F-word,” kinda waters down the impact of death threats.