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To Stop Summer Melt, Whitworth U. Sends Its Mascot on a Quest

July 25, 2011, 1:09 pm

College officials know that not every admitted applicant who sent a deposit will arrive on their campuses this fall. Each year, a small percentage never show up, a phenomenon known as “summer melt.”

To keep melt from becoming too severe, many colleges have amped up their summertime communication with incoming freshmen—by calling them, inviting them to summer receptions, or engaging them with online chats, academic advising, or housing selection.

Or, in the case of Whitworth University, by filming the school mascot—a pirate—loping around campus in pursuit of a golden pine cone.

At Whitworth, a small, Christian liberal arts university in pine-rich Spokane, administrators decided they could capitalize on their Facebook ties to their youngest cohort by posting choose-your-own adventure videos to the “Whitworth University Class of 2015” Facebook page. The videos will star the Whitworth Pirate on his “Quest for the Golden Pine Cone.”

“We had observed that there was a growing interest in the ‘Class of 2015’ Facebook group, and we wanted to meet students where they are,” says Greg Orwig, the vice president for admissions and financial aid. “Summer melt has actually been declining … but we’re relatively tuition-driven, and so every student counts,” he says, adding that this fall’s incoming class is slightly smaller than Whitworth had hoped to recruit.

In the first video, posted June 30, the Pirate skateboards around the Whitworth Loop, finds a Frisbee (cuing a Super Mario Bros. “power up” sound effect), and encounters a live-action role-player, or “larper.” In this case, it’s a bespectacled undergrad in a kid-sized knight costume. At the cliffhanger ending, students are asked to vote for what the Pirate should do next.

“Quest for the Golden Pine Cone” seems to have gotten students’ attention. Membership in the Facebook group jumped 18 percent in the six days after the first video was posted, and is up 39 percent since the video as of today, which Orwig says are unique spikes in membership.

Whitworth administrators plan to post the second video within the next few days. Then, class of 2015 students will learn how they voted—and whether the pirate took the larper out for coffee, chased him around the campus, or, naturally, pummeled him with pine cones.

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  • gpage

    In many ways yes. From experience, there are annoyances that contingent faculty have other than lack of pay/benefits and some of those can be resolved in a similar fashion. For example, I knew a lady who was content until someone in the registrar’s office enrolled a student in an overcapacity room against the teacher’s expressed wishes. I gather it was the only time people on campus had seen this person lose their temper, but the overall incident didn’t have to occur.

  • lee1967

    As Research Professor of Music Composition at the UMKC Conservatory, with a doctorate in music from Columbia, Zhou would certainly seem eligible for inclusion in the academic fold. He won for an opera, Madame White Snake, that was commissioned by Opera Boston.

  • ikd82

    Good point. The Bible says what we do to the least among us is done unto Jesus (even if you aren’t religious, the basic idea of judging the conduct of others based on how we treat the weak is a good ethical concept). Finding out how the people at the bottom are treated at your institution is the best way to find how your place actually works. Plus, many places have most of the teaching done by adjuncts, so only interviewing FT people would cut out a majority of the teachers.

  • jesor

    I’m wondering if a creative lawyer couldn’t impeach the concept that this is an athletic “scholarship”. By definition, a scholarship is a gift with certain strings attached (i.e. good gpa). Once it gets beyond a certain point, it may transition into an employment contract and 15 minutes worth of form signing, including licensing agreements seems to push it into that category. The question then becomes, are these players subject to minimum wage laws, Fair Labor Standards and Practices Act protections, etc? Is the NCAA subject to antitrust laws too? What about players from out of the country? Are they violating their visas by engaging in unathorized employment?

  • arthist030

    Well, it certainly looks like every single panel and participant shares a dogmatic commitment to liberal theology in these matters. Would it have killed them to invite a single conservative dissenter?

    I guess academics working on highly charged topics of race-class-gender feel a special need to insulate themselves at all times in a bubble of the like-minded, and pretend that it’s disinterested scientific research.

  • not4nothin

    This is beyond silly, approaching the outskirts of asinine.  I am _so_ glad I do not work in admissions at Whitworthless U.  

  • gpkoocher

    Help me understand, using a disabled (visually impaired) criminal on a skateboard will encourage me (as a parent) to spend $128K on a Whitworth degree?  Not worth a whit!

  • http://twitter.com/mikepetroff Mike Petroff

    I’m not sure I see the connection – how does posting a silly YouTube video encourage students to connect on the Whitworth University Class of 2015 group?

    Here’s a real-world application for connecting incoming students with current students on Facebook: 
    1. Create a Facebook Page for incoming students
    2. Encourage them to connect with future roommates, others in same majors, hometowns, etc.
    3. Have Orientation Leaders (current students) from your college join the same Page, develop bonds and real conversations about life on campus
    4. Have Orientation Leaders send snail-mail welcome letters/gifts to incoming students, and encourage them to post pictures to the Facebook page when they receive them
    5. Watch how excited everyone gets about attending your school: http://www.facebook.com/EmersonOrientation

    Let’s please stop writing about these campaigns just because it’s a YouTube video. Real ‘yield marketing’ involves authenticity and weeks/months of community-building. Content and connections matter way more than the platform they sit on. 

  • 22288647

    Give em a break. Obviously they are trying to connect with
    their demographic. The complaining here smacks of jealousy.

  • http://twitter.com/mikepetroff Mike Petroff

    No jealously here, sorry. See my example above (what we’re doing at Emerson). I collaborate with a ton of awesome people at other admissions/marketing/web/enrollment offices across the country – and there’s awesome work being done out there. Jealousy doesn’t get you far – but collaboration and giving praise for quality work does.

    The frustration in my comment is directed toward the coverage of this as a yield marketing story. 

  • http://twitter.com/mikepetroff Mike Petroff

    Looking at their other YouTube videos – they DO produce some quality content, like this: http://youtu.be/4mD1jImrriU

  • bdavenport0

    I am sure this isn’t the only effort they make to prevent summer melt.  I am sure they do many things that are similar to Emerson.  I think the point of that article is to highlight something unique or clever that is generating student interest, not highlight the “next big thing”.

  • 12091751

    If students like the “silly” video, it didn’t consume extensive resources to produce, and the students choose to follow along on Facebook it has value and can be the first step for more serious engagement. Is it wrong to have any fun in your marketing?

  • http://twitter.com/MalloryWood Mallory Wood

    Being a higher ed marketer that produces video and genuinely enjoys seeing what other colleges are doing with web video, I want to thank Molly for writing this article to highlight a very unique concept and idea.

    Being a higher ed marketer that works hard to decrease summer melt by creating engaging communities on various social platforms among the incoming students, I have to agree with Mike Petroff’s comments.

    The video is cute (although I question why the video is unlisted and why commenting has been disabled), fun, and lighthearted.  The Facebook “Class of” group was a great place to post it and I’m sure it created a buzz among the students which very well may have led to an increase in group members.  However, I think it is apples and oranges to compare an increase in group members to an increase in engagement.  What if those new group members never return, never post, never contribute to discussions?  What if those new group members weren’t even 2015 students?

    Looking at the 2015 group about 1 in 4 students have voted for the next video.  Obviously we will not know if this helped retain incoming students until the summer is over.  I’d love to see a follow up story analyzing if overall engagement in their Class
    of 2015 group actually increased.

  • young4616

    Well said! 

  • http://twitter.com/mikepetroff Mike Petroff

    I totally agree with you here. Like Mallory said below, I wish the article focused more on these efforts (marketing the video, keeping interest by posting polls, asking questions, answering students via the Facebook group) as ‘yield’ tools more than the YouTube video. Most marketing/yield campaigns that struggle start with the best intentions, but don’t execute on consistency after the content is created. I’m not saying Whitworth is doing that here, since they’re doing a great job in their Facebook group with incoming students. 

  • 11191774

    The thing I wonder most about is not the silliness of the video or the idea, or what some people think it might say about the institution. 

    As someone who’s been in admissions and enrollment for almost 30 years, I wonder what it says about how people view and understand student choice and affiliation.  To suggest that something like this either solidifies the former or encourages the latter sort of baffles me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lougan Lougan Bishop

    I have to agree with both Mike and Mallory.  For those of us that work on these kinds of things day in and day out, articles like this make it seem super easy.

    Cute Video Series + Facebook Group = Higher Yield

    There is so much more to it.  Building community between students takes weeks/months.  You have to build relationships with them, whether it be through interaction with current students and orientation staff, or even admissions staff taking time to answer questions in the group.   In addition, you also have to encourage relationships between the incoming students.  That’s what brings yield, not just posting videos. When students build those relationships, they feel more comfortable and the transition from high school to college doesn’t seem so tough.  

    I don’t doubt that Whitworth gets that.  It looks like their staff contributes to the group.  It’s great to see the success, but I’m sure they’ll tell you that there is WAY more to it than just a YouTube video.

  • drangie

    I tried to watch the video–really, I did.  I just couldn’t stay with it, it’s so silly and childish.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lougan Lougan Bishop

    I honestly thought it was kind of silly too, but then again… I’m not a 17 year old.   I’m not the demographic they are trying to reach. 

  • teemitch50

    Wow — I can’t believe the nastiness of the comments below. I work at Whitworth (not in admissions), and  I just want to say that we do all of the things mentioned below in addition to making inventive videos that get kids involved in their class and their university even before they set foot on campus.  If we were relying on videos like this as our only recruiting tools, we’d certainly have missed the mark. But the videos are fun, effective (check the information on response), and silly enough to please anyone with a sense of humor.  We must be doing something right, since our freshman-to-sophomore retention rate is among the highest in the country and our alums rate us very highly in all of the areas you mention below. Finally, why such disdain? I’m inclined to agree with the person who mentioned jealousy as the motivation for the sheer vindictiveness of some of the responses below. Haters, I’m sure you’ll do something someday that the Chronicle will find interesting. Just keep plugging away!

  • http://twitter.com/MalloryWood Mallory Wood

    Teemitch,

    To clarify, my comments (and I believe those of some others criticizing this article) were not directed to Whitworth but to the writer of this article who chose to solely equate a decline in summer melt to the featured video.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lougan Lougan Bishop

    Teemitch,

    I’m with Mallory, I think you’re doing a great job. We just wish more would have been mentioned about the other things you do that made this video a success. 

  • rickahardycui

    exactly

  • katherinecarlson

    On the other hand, I am_so_ glad I went to Whitworth.  I was just thinking today that I wish my undergraduate students could be trusted to do the reading and participate in class like my classmates at Whitworth did.  Is this campaign a bit silly?  Sure.  Whitworth can be a silly place, but that’s not a bad thing if you ask me.  It balances out the deep earnestness at the core of the institution and most of its students.  Being able to not take itself seriously all the time is part of what builds the student loyalty that makes Whitworth a great place to grow.  Schools like this aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but that’s no reason to dismiss them out of hand. 

    Before I visited, Whitworth had been an unappealing backup to several other schools.  All those schools admitted me, but a few months later I checked into my dorm room at Whitworth.  I’d say the admissions office must have something going for it to manage a complete change of heart like that.

  • gabrile

    Also, these foreign students don’t just come to the West for the degree.  For many, a temporary culture replacement isn’t so bad.  There are over 4,000 schools in the US from which to choose.  While there are many standouts, there are also many comparable institutions.  There are obvious benefits to earning a degree here, but it is the education plus the opportunity to live elsewhere that is alluring.  Just like domestic students going on study abroad trips.

  • jkline

    Western tradition has become ubiquitous because of a general consistency. This consistency allows people to move from country-to-country or institution-to-institution with relative ease. This is one hallmark of globalization.

    Within “Western” education there are differences. A review of schools in EUR, AUS, NZ, and the US shows differences in curriculum, expectations, time-to-complete, and even the meaning of PhD. But if I say I have a Bachelors degree everyone in a Western school understands that educational level.
    I had a colleague who purported to publish important work with a co-author in Ukrainian journals written in non-English. Fortunately, he was tenured, but it was hard to discern the legitimacy of these efforts. I would never want to decide a hire or tenure based on a model that is non-Western, unless I could get a lot of background information. I feel this is pragmatic and fair for everyone, not xenophobic.

    My point is that problems arise at the boundaries of different cultures. It would be an injustice for Western schools to act like we accept a wide range of educational backgrounds but turn down people from these non-Western schools for hiring and graduate schools. Much like currency, there needs to be equivalencies for higher education in order to accommodate globalization.

    Colonization is a bit strong. Growth due to standardization is more accurate. Unfortunately, indigenous education seems to be paying the price for this standardization effort.

  • Guest

    I wonder if this author is related to Aaron Wildavsky, that Berkeley professor whom I admired a great deal. I sense a little of Aaron Wildavsky in his prose.

    The Western academic model is not in great shape, as far as I can tell. American colleges had decades of plush surplus but those days are ending. Much of what other countries admire about American higher education was based on unsustainable systems of debt and high tuition.

  • shib78

    The writer protests too much. He criticizes without taking the time to understand why other academics would put together such a conference.  It reminds me how some (willfully?) misunderstand Said.  Were the conference participants saying that there was nothing redeeming in western universities?  Probably not.  Give me a break.  The writer trivialized their concerns & goals, making them into a strawman that could be easily sliced down.

  • http://www.facebook.com/zeldaha Zelda Haro

    Are people really surprised by this?

  • richardtaborgreene

    The current hobby wars the US is waging in Islamic nations–justified by falsified or hugely mistaken sloppy work—supports the anti-West stuff of this conference.   The people killed by US hobby wars strongly proclaim that colonial interference is alive and well while they themselves are no longer alive (to put it effectively oddly).   That is one pole.

    Another pole is the erosion of investigation, methods, publishings, and results wherever people are not forced into them—these complaining nations and academias are rife, immensely rife, with falsified research, publishings, promotions, and the like.  A huge industry throughout East and South Asia of phony conferences, in one nation but all the participants from ONE other nations, created solely to up conference presentation numbers for promotions and to raise international rankings of particular deans, presidents, and schools.   There must be dozens of such phony conferences in Japan alone every year, with no Japanese participation but done by particular non-Japan nations in Asia to up numbers.   The quality of presentations there are absolutely beyond belief.   Most of us would not accept such work from our kids in middle school.   

    So we have truth split onto two opposing poles—the conference people are right, Western nations continue to traipse around the world choosing its weakest poorest nations and sending armies in to kill people.   Not very nice.   And the non-conference people are right—the complaining nations of that conference have yet to show a will and capability to meet Western standards of investigation, methods, publishing, and results.   

    IF IF IF they had AN OTHER SYSTEM, a different form of higher education that matched or out-performed Western universities, then some real discussing could go on on this matter. BUT they lack an alternative with anything like the same amount of results (half of all children on earth NOT dying before the age of 10 due to vaccines against dozens of diseases for the simplest example).   They lack an alternative with anything like the replicated in all cultures and places and times results of published Western research (to be sure only a fraction of Western research reaches this standard).  They lack an alternative LOYALTY TO TRUTH, beyond family, era, culture, religion, profit—that dream of the 1606 Societe Philosophe in Paris, that ” I am more a citizen of truth than of France”.    They entirely lack that aim, ambitions, and most in fact outlaw that attitude and approach.   

    Both poles are right and therefore, the West has a lot to learn and the East has a lot to learn and only he who does not have a glass house in this matter should safely throw stones.   The conference threw stones without taking responsibility for an alternative or improvement in what it denigrated.   Hating the world is easy; improving it is a pain!!!! for us all.  

    The conference rather than throwing stones one-sidedly could have made progress by a balanced critique:
    1) US phony research, the vast majority of it unread because unreadibly trivial and invalid (correlations are not causation, effects without magnitudes are usually worthless for practice)
    2) East Asian research, data chosen and analyzed without literature review or contribution to a dialog among global scholars/publications—data analysis because data is easy and analysis is easy (Kennedy school type stuff)
    3) European Giant Overweening Masters—who publish thousands of pages of unsubstantiated opinions STILL–legends in their own minds.
    EVERYONE has their own preferred forms of slop, junk, waste, and evil. SO, such a conference COULD have addressed—-
    10) WHAT NEW FORM OF RESEARCH gets beyond US phony papers of topics tiny enough to make their pitiful maths work, gets beyond East Asian reasonless data choice and analysis, and gets beyond cosmic scale dumps of European lordly personal opinions?
    OKAY what does that job? I want to know. I have failed to solve this myself thus far. A conference on this just might come up with a form of research and international supports for it that overcome Western research phoninesses, East Asia research phoninesses, and European research phoninesses.

    Take Chinese medicine in the USA now as a case showing how HARD addressing this question 10 above would be:
    The Chinese medicine approach (vastly simplified) is simple–10,000 bee stings not one tipping point (the Western medicine approach is find that one tipping point where slight inputs change whole systems). So you are a small in stature woman with rheumatoid arthritis–the Western approach is extremely purified chemicals that shut down powerful parts of the immune system, saving joints and increasing cancer risk 10 to 40 times above normal (the women die in some other physician’s department so rheumatology appear non-deadly). The chinese case is showing up in 2010 and 2011 much more powerful—women of short stature (or of any of 22 other traits that tilt for this illness) need clean synovial fluid, which requires good blood clearing, which require good functioning livers, which requires great bile flows (the smallness of diameter of that tube in short women causes many to suffer dirty blood etc.). So Western medicine give ONE highly pure chemical to increase bile flow (say by lowering viscosity of the bile)—BUT that purification makes a side-effect magnified, that kills the women (eventually). The Chinese approach is five different medicines each of which increases bile flow by slightly different mechanisms, and each is given in herbal form, not highly purified, so side-effects are slight AND since each of the 5 has different side-effects, NO final harm is done by the treatment. The NIH has sat on this data for over 8 years while British and Canadian practitioners and scholars get deeply excited about and pay for testing of it on patient populations. Those interested can write me for the leading NIH publication practitioner of the Chinese approach—he has 18,000 patients in East Asia and is 80 years old but still publishes in NIH journals twice or so a year—amazing person.

    All I am saying is:
    in a matter of life and death
    for tens of millions of women in the Western world
    the West holds onto its preferred form of solution, while it manifestly does harm and cures not
    the West finds continual excuses and delays for the Eastern 10,000 bee stings approach.

    So East and West may both be right and both be wrong, but they have NOT show a lot of ability or will to learn from each other.

  • http://twitter.com/Nathan_Andrews1 Nathan Andrews

    Insightful, and of course thought-provoking…..but the epistemic oppression has to stop!

  • laundrydishes

    Well thank goodness for people like Ben Wildavsky who knows better than those silly-speaking people who don’t know what’s truly good for themselves. 

  • pesor33

    I have to agree with you gabrile.  I think the US has a great deal to offer people from other countries.  After all, look who owns most of the businesses.

  • ralfjritter

    Mr. Wildavsky is correct to point out that the Western model of education should not be considered as “colonial academic oppression” – such a theme is absurd. Yet, as with all things, we should also not become narcissistic about our own systems. Perhaps there are some elements elsewhere that would lend themselves to some kind of “fusion academics”. We have to be careful that we don’t start saying “you’re either with us or against us” and that goes for all: North,South,West,East. A lot also depends on context and what is taught.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RSRD4KFLLVQHEM4QYHLLFBQR6M chaz

    “We are firmly convinced that every trace of Eurocentrism in our
    universities – reflected in various insidious forms of western controls
    over publications, theories, and models of research must be subordinated
    to our scintillating cultural and intellectual traditions.”

    While I admire the aims of this conference, I think the author is right to call the rhetoric of the manifesto “silly.”  As other commentators have pointed out or alluded to, the real problem with conferences like this is the lack of a real vision of specific steps to implement a genuine alternative.  I’m sure many papers used terms like “Towards” or prefixes like “Re-” to start their titles – always a bad sign. 

    On a rhetorical note, notice how the authors of the above quote fixate on the West and its insidious – or so we are meant to believe – “control” of all things academic.  This is stating the obvious and fixating on the “West” – a homogenizing term itself – as a convenient boogeyman.  The much harder work of imagining a viable alternative has yet to be started.  Until coming up with genuine solutions that fit quotidian realities is the central focus of conferences which attempt to rethink the “norm,” conferences like this will be a nice way for grad students and professors to justify a short vacation to themselves.

  • bambino

    I have to say I enjoyed the smugness of the author’s assertion about the obvious preeminence of the Western University over other possible educational model.

    It reminds me of the way the West approaches (and as always) approached other cultures in general. We define the playing field, set up the rules of engagement, bemoan the fact that the rest of the world doesn’t understand what’s good for them, celebrate the few who have adopted a “if you can’t win, join them” attitude as progressive beacons of enlightened understanding, castigate those who resist as backwards-looking reactionaries, and go home pleased with ourselves with yet another display of our innate superiority.

    Nothing new under the sun. If Barthes were alive today, he would have a field day.

  • blesstayo

    Other than talented potential musicians and athletes, I think staying in school would benefit the majority of minority students –my brothers and sisters need to stay in school, rather than ending up in jail.

  • dpcowboy

    Actually, the exact opposite policy would have a far more beneficial effect on our society. Let parents allow their children to drop out at whatever age they choose. Of course, that would require
    parental responsibility, which is in short supply in the U.S.!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Washington-Lacey/41703115 Paul Washington-Lacey

    Everybody is over-looking the obvious benefit. Sure they may still be rotten students( this does not mean they are not smart), but they will need a different kind of educational experience. In the ‘new type of school’ for them means more teachers and they would come from the ranks of laid-off  K-12 and/or many of those part time adjunct instructors under-paid  at community colleges or even non-educators who have had success in working with these kinds of students.  They will be ‘bridging’ them from secondary to post secondary education. We could call it Transitory Education. New and  non-traditional pedagogic styles and ways could be perfected, like Charter Schools are being use to shake-up and try better ways in educating these youth. Those additional ‘earned’ paychecks will benefit the economy and lower the unemployment ranks, you’d think?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Antsy-Kuhnwisse/100002159499682 Antsy Kuhnwisse

    I beg your pardon.  Keep kids in school to provide jobs for teachers?  Like we keep more people in jail to provide jobs for prison guards?  Sorry, but your last sentence made your whole proposal sound callous.
     
    Our students are not mice to be experimented upon, nor “precious resources” to be refined for the good of society.  Nor are they “our future.”  They are human beings who, after a dozen or so years of being told what to do, generally want to start making some decisions for themselves.  (Especially if what the adults have decided up to that point hasn’t worked out so well for them.)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Antsy-Kuhnwisse/100002159499682 Antsy Kuhnwisse

    Academically-inclined students who like school benefit from it, but for the square pegs (who aren’t musically or athletically talented), remaining in that round hole is just uncomfortable.  If the musicians and athletes can have other options, why can’t all kids?

  • mlisaacs

    Alternative high school options that combine traditional high school classes while creating
    career centers that train students for specific jobs is the real answer.  If such programs were
    well co-ordinated so that the practical training of the career centers, applied the math and made use
    of the writing and comprehension skills from the traditional high school classes, students would
    see the relevance and be more inclined to stay in school and graduate.
    Of course this would take funding, newer facilities that match today’s needs and outstanding
    teachers and curriculum development.  Someone must have a vision for the future. 
    What a thought!  Someone has to care.

  • Socratease2

    This article is short on analysis. The upshot form these state studies is that forcing students to stay in school until they are 18 does not increase graduation rates and is not linked to increased lifetime “success.”  Uh, I think we have a problem, the author himself says that the states who had those mandates did not enforce them so truancy and grad rates stayed the same. That is not an indictment of the possibility it would make a difference, it is an indictment of state enforcement. How about a state that actually enforced the law and then studied these rates? Does that exist? It is not a dubious idea. That is like saying laws against murder do not deter murder, but, oh yeah, the laws are not enforced at all. Clearly it is best for students to stay in school and this argument simply says “Hey, let’s give up without trying.” Seems more like a Republican idea, freedom to remain stupid and ignorant. But seems that is where the Tea Party of tomorrow is harvested so good job.It is fine to have 50-70% of HS students not complete their education. They can just get all those awesome trade and manufacturing jobs…as long as they can get employed in China.

  • Socratease2

    Maybe we can turn all those drop outs into Soylent Green.

  • pm9531

    The assumption learning ever began is incorrect. 

  • doctorbill

    Part of our problem – collectively – is that we accept that meaningless, painful, and demeaning experiences comprise our legitimate expections for life and work. Thus, high school, which too many students experience as I described, must be endured as the appropriate preparation for success (read survival) in the workplace.

    I, fortunately, had many positive experiences in high school; these outweighted the negative ones. However, many students find nothing to compensate for the prison-like environment of many high schools. High school students are children in the process of becoming adults. Until we respond to this reality (and the horrid family and social environments that surround many of them) we can expect many of these children to escape into the wasteland that they consider superior to their shool environments.

  • jaysanderson

    First, make it illegal to drop out of high school. Next, make it illegal to be unemployed and illiterate. Finally, sign into law a requirement that everyone must be financially successful. Voila! Ignorance and poverty gone with the stroke of a pen. Why didn’t anyone else think of that?

  • bigjoe

    I agree, students should graduate; however, you can lead the horse to the water, but you can not make him drink.  In Kentucky, they will “Pull” the driver license of any student under 18 that is failing too many classes.  That can cause a problem when a 17 year old student, in the seventh grade, is allowed to play middle-school football (barely enough passing grades) and drive to the games.  Yes, he did drop out when he turned 18.  He was a bully in school and he gave the teachers hell for 2 years.  He should have been allowed to quit at 16.  I am sure that there are others like him in the country.

  • kevinwaspi

    It is not unusual to observe correlation and mistakenly assume causation.  This is true in academia, politics, business, everywhere.  It’s probably even true about academics observing politicians.

  • blesstayo

    Isn’t eduaction a strong weapon for holding some people down while lifting others in any civilized society? What happens if the masses are uneducated and can’t find a job? Will the rich and so-called “middle-class” feel secured? Doesn’t the impact of keeping people at schools outweigh the option to drop out?

  • maricueta

    Instead of a simple solution like raising the mandatory school age to 18, why not address the problems that lead to dropping out?  More importantly, why not bring back the vocational type of education and/or incorporate some type of job training, preparation or internship into the 4-yr eduaction model and make HS education relevant to those at risk for dropping out.  In reality, 12 years of schooling is economics:  it delays young people from entering the work force and keeps the unemployment rates low, not just this way, but it also keeps many people employed as teachers and others in high schools.  Material covered over 12 years can easily be condensed, so students are prepared for work OR vocational, professional training or college  by the age of 16. Raising the age to 18 will only create more problems, the least of which will be higher drop out rates. 

  • maricueta

    This is a very good idea, good program.  Unfortunately, ALL that is the President’s idea is to raise the age to 18 PERIOD  Too many schools, especially in urban area have little or no money for extra programs.  If the President alloted funding for such programs whereever they are needed, then maybe.

  • foxfaculty

    Some really good comments and some that are less so.  ‘mlisaacs’ is right on vocational training.  Not everyone is cut out for college.  The president is fond of following European models, why not in education.  Not all European secondary students go to college, many are tracked into trade schools.  Students who are not that interested in school might be more motivated if they were being prepared for work they will enjoy.

    ‘dpcowboy’ is also so right.  Schools can only do so much to keep students engaged.  Parents need to support teachers by making school a priority in their childrens lives.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Antsy-Kuhnwisse/100002159499682 Antsy Kuhnwisse

    Funny the way you express it: that education is “a strong weapon FOR holding some people down while lifting others.”  Indeed, it can work out that way.  In this compulsory 12-year competition in which all children are entered, all these very different individuals are expected to learn the same things at the same ages to the same degree of mastery.  Students who bloom late (or early), or think differently, or whose particular talents are not on the curriculum that year, will be penalized for their inability to fit the school’s demands.

    Children quickly discover in school which students are smart and which ones are stupid, which ones are popular and which are outcasts, which ones are winners and which are losers. From my observation, kids usually accept those labels, positive or negative, and live with them for their remaining years in school.

    We’ve had compulsory education in the U.S. for over a century, and we still have uneducated masses unable to find jobs.  I don’t think two more years of torture for those masses will help.