May 7, 2008
Israeli Nukes as Political Taboo
Rodger A. Payne, a political scientist at the University of Louisville, suggests at The Duck of Minerva that in the wake of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt’s controversial book on Israeli lobbying power in America, a related taboo topic be discussed openly: Israel’s nuclear-weapons program.
“Part of the reason nobody wants to talk about Israeli nuclear weapons is that any debate would quickly reveal American hypocrisy,” Payne writes. “How can the U.S. put pressure on Iran or North Korea about their proliferation if it turns a blind eye to Israel?”
Alex Kafka | Posted on Wednesday May 7, 2008 | Permalink
It’s pretty easy Alex. Israel is our ally and good friend. The charge of hypocrisy is hardly valid. Iran’s actions are far more hypocritical than the US. Even in the absence of your charge of “hypocrisy”, the US has a long history supporting nuclear non proliferation.
Let’s stop talking about Iran and take hard and necessary action. May it be ummerciful in execution.
— mike May 7, 12:31 PM #
Yes Mike, let us take swift and brutal action against the Iranian nuclear facilities. We could even come up with a catchy name for the operation – something like ‘Shock and Awe’ would probably play well on major media outlets. Then, after hundreds of thousands of Iranian citizens die because the reactors are located in major population centers we can rejoice in knowing that America represents all that is Just and Pure in this wonderful world of ours.
Just a suggestion – look up UN Security Council resolutions condemning Israel vs. those condemning Iran.. and tell me we’re not full of hypocrisy.
— Josh May 7, 12:45 PM #
It’s time we talk about EVERYTHING that’s happening—not just what makes “us” look good and “them” look bad. I’m a bit confused as to why some states/territories are identified as affiliates of the “Axis of Evil” and others are not. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the others are part of the “Axis of Ignorance.”
— Francine May 7, 03:37 PM #
Bombs for all my friends!!
— first marci May 7, 03:42 PM #
Well actually, Josh, when you’re looking up UN resolutions concerning Israel and other states, you’ll be struck by the egregious hypocrisy of the United Nations itself. It’s not just the United States that is “full of hypocrisy.”
— Bob May 7, 04:52 PM #
i don’t like all this talk about bombs and “necessary action.” The only justification for such language is seeing UN Security Council resolutions taken seriously.
— Perplexed May 7, 04:53 PM #
A response to “mike” above (#1):
I study German history for a living, and so perhaps I tend to see such rhetoric through too dark of a lens. Nonetheless, when you demand “hard and necessary action,” and you pray for a LACK of mercy…
…then it is time to look down and check your own shirt, for it is more than a little bit brown.
Can I offer my own counter-prayer?
May the world be spared a return of that brutalism that mocks human suffering while dressing up its self-satisfied cruelty in the rhetoric of Realpolitik.
— d May 7, 05:24 PM #
Alex, you’ve got it all wrong … Iran is not talking about deterrence. Over the years, they’ve been very vocal and intent on “destroying” Israel and creating a Juden-rein middle east. That way they can not only defeat the American Satan but also gain hegemony in the islamic world as the “liberators” of Jerusalem. The fact that millions of its citizens may get wiped out in a counter-strike means little to these crazies. That is why Iran poses such a difficult challenge to the west. And that is why the US will inevitably have to nuke Iran.
— marci May 7, 06:14 PM #
How is it the four thousand year old civilization of Persia/Iran is branded populated by “crazies,” while Israel is not when creating the new Warsaw Ghetto of Gazza? As a former student of mine would periodically express, “I have one word to say: ‘Jenin.’” Who composes “crazies” now? And, oh yeah, what about all those cluster bomblets strewn throughtout southern Lebanaon? Oh yeah, only “crazies” like the Iranians would do something like that.
— DVP May 8, 10:18 AM #
Yes, Jenin, where the Israelis suffered many casualties because the Israeli army observed just war restrictions in order to minimize civilian casualties. That is, the IDF went house to house with troops rather than using air power to destroy neighborhoods. As for the predictable Palestinian claim that the Israelis committed “genocide” in Jenin, too many lazy observers are quick to confuse propaganda with truth. Of course, “truth” in a post-modern age allows Israel’s critics to believe anything they want.
— observer May 8, 11:08 AM #
DVP, I have only one word for you too, SDEROT. Is there a civilized country in the world that would tolerate the daily death and destruction that the crazies in Gaza inflict on the citizens of Sderot? I don’t think so.
And do you know why Israel “tolerates” that insanity? It’s precisely as Observer pointed out … because the Hamas crazies hide in heavily populated areas and to take them out would mean heavy collateral damage. And then guess what, the UN in its usual spirit of fairness and justice will condemn the Israelis of genocide … a concept very much at home with hamas, hesbollah, iran, syria, libya, etc., because they’re itching to finish what hitler began in the 30s and 40s.
— marci May 8, 12:40 PM #
Note to the fake “marci” (no. 8 & no. 11);
1. you’re not a woman, you’re a man (judging by your word choice)
and
2. you’re a sociopath.
“the US will have to nuke Iran.”
Hmmm, for all the turbo-charged, hyper-testosteroned armchair-warriors out there reading the Chronicle (not your fault, Chronicle: America seems to churn these out in massive quantities—I blame Tom Clancy), I will offer yet another prayer:
I pray that you actually never have to face the millions of incinerated or horrifically-burned children that your “manly” rhetoric so stridently demands.
Are you really so detached from the real world that you have no realization of what nuclear bombardment means?! Play fewer video games and talk to someone who’s seen something like that. Talk to a combat vet (not some REMF or jet jockey) about what it is like to kill an innocent person, and then multiply that shame and self-loathing a million times.
— d May 8, 01:37 PM #
What a joke this — d is! Only in America would someone on a blog have to audacity to “define” someone’s gender on the basis of “word choice.”
Will you be doing palm readings as well?
And while we’re at this pontificating game of yours offering your ludicrous “prayers,” how about a prayer for the victims of daily missile firings into Sderot? Oh? You mean that’s on your agenda? Might that be because the victims in Sderot happen to be Jews?
Do everyone a favor and creep back into your hole where you belong together with the other cowards who use this blog to spread their hateful opinions and anti-semitic views.
— marci May 8, 02:31 PM #
The nice thing about monotheistic religions is how they tend to spend hundreds of years killing off members of other monotheistic religions in a kind of co-evolutionary dumbness competition. Being “right” makes a fool of you as some readers, not out of adolescence yet, apparently, have not learned yet. The distance for “I’m right” to “your’re dead” is quite small, in reality. So the distance from “I’m right” to “I’m dumb as hell” is even smaller.
— Richard Tabor Greene May 8, 09:11 PM #
Have those who advocate the use of nuclear weapons considered the impact on all living species on this planet? Nuclear warfare is not tidy and the costs are not confined only to the enemy.
— Cicero May 8, 10:19 PM #
Cicero, of course they have … but what are the alternatives? To let Iran strike first or to nuke them before they can unleash their arsenal? These are not easy questions … but at some point soon they must be addressed WITH ALACRITY!
— marci May 9, 11:24 AM #
I notice some stock responses from the likes of ‘mike’, ‘marci’, ‘observer’, and then I noticed that my GIYUS.org messenger — which I keep just for fun — is advising me to visit here, and is suggesting responses (for samples see mike, marci, observer).
— Ed May 9, 05:30 PM #
d in #7. As a student of German history, you can appreciate the magnificence of the Wehrmacht in the summer of 41. One of the most dazzling offensives in military history. (Operation Barbarossa of course). Can you imagine how thrilling it would have been to feel the hot summer wind in your face riding in Heinz Guderian’s tank?!?!?! A ruthless and intellectual commander with disciplined troops on the move! How fantastic!
One cannot hope for such an attack on Iran. These days it will be with precision guided weapons and perhaps a naval blockade. The smell of death will be far away from the combatants and that is too bad.
Still I hope it happens in this calendar year, before President Bush leaves office. The Israeli’s will need a man with backbone at their side.
Cheers,
mike
— mike May 9, 07:51 PM #
Israel definitely has WMDs, the most open secret in the world. According to my sources in Israel, there are more than 300 nuclear weapons in the desrts and outside Tel Aviv, from the old nuke site of Demona.
Israel is still keeping whislte blower Mordechai Vanunuj under “jerusalem arrest” after he has served 18years on prison for telling the world about the nuclear weapons in Demona. Israelis still so frightened of what he might say that he is forbidden to speak to internationals in Jerualem and he is not permitted to travel even to the West Bank!
Of course Mordechai has not been near Demona for more than 20 years, so what he could say that would endanger Israel is laughable.
What Israel fears is that the world will demand to inspect their WMD sites.
Apparently they have more WMDS than any other nation except for the US and the EU. And behold! Israel is the size of New Jersey.
Hmmmmn,
Alice
— Alice Bach May 12, 11:13 AM #
just how many marci’s are there now?
— original marci May 13, 04:13 PM #