There’s been a fair amount of commentary on the Harvard column I wrote for The Chronicle last week. This critique in Harvard Magazine was thoughtful, as were many of the comments under the piece on the site itself. Not all, though: For the record, I’ve never applied to or been rejected by Harvard, although if I had applied the university certainly would have rejected me for completely justified reasons. I wasn’t a very conscientious student in high school, or as an undergraduate for that matter. Nor do I bear the university any personal grudges. Working in the D.C. think tank / journalism / legal world, I know dozens of Harvard graduates and they’re all wonderful, smart people. I’m also pretty baffled by this:
I registered with this website specifically to comment on this story. As a Harvard Alum (class of 08), I can’t help but wonder what made this writer so bitter. Do you not understand that admitting more students would dilute the value of a Harvard degree?
The idea that increasing the freshman class from 1,600 to 2,400 would discernibly dilute the value of a Harvard degree in a nation of 300 million people and a world many times larger is so laughable that in some ways this post is the strongest counter-argument to my thesis yet devised, because if people are really graduating from Harvard with such a weak sense of proportionality then perhaps the university shouldn’t be educating more undergrads after all.
Some more pointed critiques from members of the Harvard faculty can be found here and here. Judith Ryan (who I assume is this Judith Ryan) points out that one of the benefits of spending many millions of dollars hiring more faculty without teaching more students is that it reduces the faculty / student ratio. I responded:
The question of class size comes up a lot in these dicussions, and in the most general way it’s probably true that small faculty / student ratios are better. But studies of class size and other educational factors (most of which have been conducted in K-12 schools) tend to show an inverse relationship between effects and student preparation. In other words, class sizes matter a lot for students who are unprepared, come from disadvantaged backgrounds, etc., but matter little for students who bring more in the way of social capital, aptitude, and other resources to the classroom. Since Harvard admits the smartest, best-prepared students in the universe, I wonder how sensitive to class size they are. But if there’s any elite college-level evidence to bring to bear on this point (Big surveys like Pascarella and Terenzini provide little) I’d love to see it. And even if the general point is granted, it still leaves the question of whether the marginal loss of learning all other students experience as a result of having one more student in class outweighs the marginal benefits that one more student receives at Harvard compared to where they would have otherwise gone.
In reply, Ryan said:
The matter of class size at the college level has not been as much studied as it has at the elementary and secondary-school level. Studies that do exist work with different university systems and thus aren’t entirely compatible. There’s no space here to give a disquisition on research on this question. Students themselves tend to have divided opinions. The Light report showed that they say they get more out of a course when the class size is small. Yet practical experience at Harvard suggests that many students choose large-enrollment courses. We don’t know exactly why this is, but it may be because an individual student is less likely to be called on to answer a question. In my view, class size matters most in certain kinds of courses. Writing courses and foreign language courses are excellent examples of subject areas where smaller class size improves students’ performance.
There’s more to the post, based on Dr. Ryan’s personal experience teaching literature, which I have no reason to doubt. That said, “There’s no space here to give a disquisition on research on this question” is unsatisfying. First, because this is the Internet, so there’s actually infinite space. One of the consequences of the IT revolution is that you have to come up with new euphemisms for “I’d rather not take the time to track down and cite actual research findings to support my case.” But in any event, there’s not much research. Pascarella and Terenzini’s authoritative How College Affects Students says: “We uncovered 10 studies that focus on the effects of class size on course learning. All of the investigations are quasi-experimental or correlational in design. … Unfortunately, five of the studies used course grade as the measure of learning. … The conflicting evidence and continuing methodological problems surrounding this small body of research make it difficult to form a firm conclusion.”
This is pretty astounding. There’s a whole body of K-12 class size research despite the fact that class sizes don’t vary all that much — the vast majority of classes are between 15 and 35 students. College classes, by contrast, range into the thousands, and there are plenty of courses among and inside of colleges with similar curricula that could be used for study, yet there’s an absolute paucity of research. Meanwhile, the lead article in this week’s Chronicle Review begins as follows:
Michael Sandel, a 56-year-old political scientist who teaches one of Harvard’s most popular courses, “Justice,” shrinks that university’s cavernous Sanders Theatre down to a seminar room. An exaggeration, yes, but not by much. Sandel handles 1,000 students more adroitly than most teachers can a tenth, a fiftieth, that number.
There’s a picture accompanying the article (the online version really doesn’t do it justice) of Sandel standing in the packed theater. Look at it and ask yourself: If they could fit in some more rows and bump up the class size to, say, 1,600, would they? Should they? I think the answer in both cases is obviously “Yes.” At that size, the class is lecture as performance. Sandel is good at it, the students want it, of course it would be a good idea. All of which is to say that “we reduced class size” is not nearly a good enough answer, given the lack of evidence that it matters very much for students of Harvard caliber.
Meanwhile, I was going to respond to Emily’s post in which she gets defensive about legacy admissions, but current Harvard legacy Dylan Mathews did such a thorough job here I have little to add, other than to say that while Emily is right to call me out for sloppy writing w/r/t “children of legacies,” otherwise I think the point stands. Of course many legacies are terrific students (Dylan is a very talented writer and journalist, for example, and began writing sharp political analysis when he was, like, 15, that is, the same age I spent all my time playing Strat-o-matic baseball.) But in the end admissions preferences are what they are. They matter, even if it hurts to say so. Emily says:
The conversation about legacy admits seems very personal to me, and it’s very hard for me to get away from that. I’ve had people here on campus and elsewhere who have heard me talk about being the daughter of an alum say to me, “You took a place away from a more deserving, more qualified student.” And all I’m saying is, I don’t think that’s the way these statistical patterns operate, on that kind of personal level, and I don’t think it’s fair to have to feel guilty about going to the same college as your mom, even if it is Princeton. I don’t think its fair to have to feel guilty about going to Princeton.
Being a legacy doesn’t make you history’s greatest monster. But admissions is a zero-sum game. Harvard admits 1,600 and some students per year, and no more. There’s no way to know for sure if you edged out a more deserving candidate by checking the legacy box, but, not coincidentally, that ambiguity also serves the interests of legacies. It’s a little like being on a firing squad where everyone is shooting blanks except one, and nobody knows which one. You can tell yourself “I might not have fired the fatal shot,” but you were still on the firing squad. Admissions preferences of any kind — faculty, athletics, affirmative action — only matter at the margins. The only reason to check the box is to push yourself over the line.
Legacy status isn’t a reason to be wracked with guilt for the rest of your life, and I don’t think we’re doing students any favors by forcing them to make these kinds of difficult ethical choices when they’re 17 years old. But I would say that being a legacy increases your moral obligation to use your Ivy league education to benefit the common good.


11 Responses to Harvard, Resentment, Legacies, Class Size, Etc.
downes - October 5, 2009 at 6:24 pm
The key sentence here is “Harvard admits the smartest, best prepared-students in the universe…”The problem is, the sentence does not read, “Harvard admits ONLY the smartest, best prepared-students in the universe…”In fact, what we know is that Harvard admits (a) legacies, (b) people with enough money to buy their way in, and (c) some of the the smartest, best prepared-students in the universeIt’s (a) and (b), not (c), that makes Harvard’s endownment, favorable government treatment, and the rest, objectionable.As for the “smartest, best prepared-students in the universe,” their role is to make it look as though students of class (a) and (b) are much better than they actually are.
montiferous - October 6, 2009 at 8:49 am
“a little like being on a firing squad”? Really? There must be a better analogy to reinforce your point, Kevin, that’s less violent, offensive and overly-dramatic. The topic of legacy admission–or selective college admission in general–is charged enough, without such unnecessary rhetoric. Legacy admission could be “a little like” a lot of unrelated processes, in theory; in fact, based on your choice of words, it’s a *lot* like NOT being on a firing squad (forgiving the awkward phrasing), which is the more accurate take-away. A more substantive and worthy discussion should drill down through issues of class, pK-12 education/preparation, and your closing note of benefitting (and defining) “the common good.” Otherwise, using such images to prove your point is a little like being an arsonist, setting a fire (perhaps unintentionally, you can tell yourself that “I didn’t mean to spark the blaze”) but you were still there and in the end, responsible for the mischief and damage that results…
geoz32 - October 6, 2009 at 8:49 am
The simplest answer to me is, if it weren’t important to be a legacy, then there wouldn’t be a box to check.
firstgenprof - October 6, 2009 at 9:15 am
I would love to hear more about the class size debate. I teach statistics. In my 20+ years as an instructor I have taught classes ranging in size from 6 to 400. It requires a particular talent to engage and entertain a room of 400 young adults. It also requires a particular skill to engage, on a regular basis, a group of 6. Some of us can do both. I suspect many of us are better suited for one more than the other. My personal preference is to work with a group of 40 or fewer. My satisfaction as a teacher is much higher. I can know my students by name, which means I can adapt on a daily basis to the mood in the room. I believe that when I feel fulfilled in the classroom my students are more engaged and also feel that they are learning more. And I learn more in a smaller classroom, which informs my teaching for the next group of students.The right class size is dependent on the instructor, the subject, and the students.
11314967 - October 6, 2009 at 9:52 am
Kevin,You wrote: “…proportionality than perhaps….” “Than” should be “then.”
willardmdix - October 6, 2009 at 11:06 am
Kevin– I think your initial article and this response are right on target. Just one quibble: Even Harvard has to accept more students than the 1,600 that make up a class because, incredibly, some accepted students actually decide to go elsewhere. (One of my counselees when I was a college counselor in high school chose to attend Spelman, her mother’s alma mater, rather than Harvard). Even so, while most colleges are happy to have yield rates of 30 percent, Harvard’s usually is somewhere around 75, meaning that it doesn’t have to accept many more…Will Dix
kevin_carey - October 6, 2009 at 11:10 am
11314967 — You’re right. Fixed!
madamesmartypants - October 6, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Great article, and great research–nice links all over the place (though I thought you were rather charitable in calling the Harvard Magazine critique “thoughtful”). I liked this article even better than the one on which this is based.
obfpir - October 7, 2009 at 12:33 pm
“Harvard admits 1,600 and some students per year, and no more.”Wrong. Harvard regularly admits over 2,000 students per year. About 75-80% decide to enroll.http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/Snapshotx.aspx?unitId=acb1b1abadb2A bit hypocritical to criticize a Literature professor for not tracking down research outside her subject area – considering it’s not her job – while you can’t take the time to get some easy facts straight, which actually IS your job, isn’t it?”Harvard could have used its great fortune to create more spots for deserving low-income students and hire people to fan out across the world and find them.”And how do you know that neither of these things have happened? Do you have facts to back anything up? In fact, we KNOW the latter has happened, based on a look at Harvard’s public documents: http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/factbook.phpAnd do you know how many “underqualified legacies” enroll at Harvard? Any idea whatsoever?Considering the year-to-year swings in the number of admits, have you considered that admitting even 40 or so of these so-called “unqualified” applicants would matter not one iota to those who actually are “qualified”?Shoddy research, simplistic reasoning, and not an ounce of sophistication or even the slightest attempt at fair-handedness. Shame on you, Chronicle.
richardtaborgreene - October 7, 2009 at 9:20 pm
1. I do not find the faculty at Harvard “wonderful” enough to attract more students there—they are okay in their own ways but many are quite narrow having done “numbers publishing” supremely and the rest are “quants applied everywhere” with 800 GRE maths applied to every conceivable topic to up their publishing numbers. Go to a lunch room and no ideas will be found—the vile competitiveness among faculty makes lunching at Harvard one of the world’s least intellectual activities. 2. The eCompetition to places like Harvard and places like MIT kicking greedy Harvard’s bottom into Open Courseware and Open Publishing is a bigger force—rather than open face-to-face doors, technology is making face-to-face-ness less central and essential. We will probably reach a point where the world’s best professors can be FOUND on line well enough and can GOOGLE WAVE well enough ON THEIR OWN so that places like Harvard just dissolve in pools of self love and relictual eliteness. We can all take off our socks and wiggle our toes in old British class system snobberies (Bledsoe’s old book on the Culture of Professionals). 3. Legacy, family admits are highly motivating for other admits–sitting next to rich daddy’s dissolute kid and watching what gets him/her a “gentlemen’s B+” (use to be C) I found thrilling—if THAT were to be my future competition a grand future was assurred!! Of course quite a few end up in “public service” and get us all paying for useless cruel (to poor people) wars. Oh well, all is not perfect even in snobbery worlds of numbers publishers.
nyyankee - October 13, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Just a point of clarification, there is not necessarily a “legacy box” for applicants to check. The Common Application, used by Harvard and many other schools who practice holistic review, asks all applicants to list name/employment/eduction information about their parents. The admissions office then decides how to weigh that information in the context of the rest of the individual application, as well as the contect of the rest of the applicant pool. Believe it or not, sometimes the first-gen daughter of an auto mechanic edges out the legacy who started his own non-profit. Sometimes they are even able to take both. I always found that the nuances of holistic review ameliorated somewhat the zero-sum game of highly-selective admissions, at the margins and sometimes even at the center.