One of the excellent students in my creative writing class, Michelle P. Carter, tells us more about what students would like their instructors to know:
1. We make lists of all your weird-ass mannerisms.
You start every sentence with “that said.” You say “literally” when you mean “actually” or “I’m not exaggerating.” You squeak “m’kay?” at every lull in your lecture, just to make sure that the crickets you hear and the tumbleweed you see blowing through this 300-seat hall is just your imagination. You stroke your chin whenever someone coughs. You’re loud enough to wake the dead. You need to know that we make games out of these things. We count how many times you say “sort of” in 50 minutes (it was almost 200, by the way). We instigate a chorus of coughs to see if we can get you to rub that stubble off your chin. If we made a drinking game out of every time you wiped your glasses on your blazer, we’d all be three sheets to the wind by the time you fired up that pointless PowerPoint. And you need to know that these are the things that define you between students. “Oh, you’re taking his class? Check out the way he makes every statement like it’s a question. Hilarious.”
2. Grandma really did die.
I can appreciate how difficult it is to try and distinguish what’s a made-up excuse and what’s a real personal disruption. But don’t be so narrow-minded that you reject every plea for leniency. If someone’s grandmother dies three times during the course of your class, it’s safe to say they’re making up some story to get out of lecture or an exam or a particularly grueling research project. But then again, you also need to recognize when a student is telling the truth. Approaching the professor to ask for compassion is probably the most terrifying part of being a student. If I’m honestly going to miss class next week to go to a funeral, you’re going to look like a real tool if you assume I’m dishonest and you make some tasteless remark.
3. Working in groups should never be mandatory.
When in a class where I feel lost, it’s nice to be working with other students who know what the hell they’re doing. But by the same token, if you’re going to allow group work, it should never be mandatory. Everyone is just going to pair up with their friends, and those of us unlucky enough to be drifters (or worse, fish-out-of-water with the major) aren’t going to stand a chance. Group work can be marvelous, but don’t force it on us. We’re not in high school anymore; we don’t all know each other, and we don’t all have the same schedule. Asking nine people to choreograph a research paper is absurd. Some projects just work better alone. Some of us just work better alone. Plus, in groups, there’s always that one student who does all the work and everyone else just copies. So you might as well just tell 80 percent of the class not to do the assignment. Believe it or not, this is not an effective teaching method.
4. You are not my only professor. This is not my only class.
You know this, but you don’t understand it, so pay attention. I’m taking five classes at once. You are one professor for one of those classes. As excited as you are to teach me, and as excited as I am to learn from you, you’ve got to dial back on the workload. I know, I know. The typical response to the whiny college student is: “Grow up, life isn’t easy, and if you think this is tough, just wait until you graduate and face the real world, you punk.” The problem is that it’s not about me being lazy or you toughening me up for “the real world.” If you and four other professors decide it’s funny to assign as much work as possible just to see how much we can handle before we crack, I’m far more likely to blow it all off and not do any of it. Factor in that I have an actual paying job where I work 25 hours a week to pay down the hundred grand I owe this university for educating me in the first place, and you’re asking me to choose my studies over basic living habits like eating a meal every once in a while and sleeping ever. On the whole, the workload needs to calm the hell down because my inclination is to just play Free Cell until I lose a game, and so far I’m undefeated.
5. Teach me without condemning me.
Please. Teaching is what you do best, even if I’m not making it sound that way.
66 Responses to 5 Things Professors Don’t Know, Part 2
literarytype - November 18, 2009 at 10:06 pm
We must teach you as if you are our only student and as if each class were our only class. Otherwise we’d end up reading from the lecture, as the first student warned us against. But beware of the fact that you shouldn’t condemn us any more than we are permitted to condemn you. Working 25 hours a week in addition to being a full-time student shows you’re a trooper and I hope you give yourself credit for that. Sorry if grandma did die, too.
coybean - November 19, 2009 at 12:35 am
Excellent!I’d like to add to 4. Not only is this not my only class, but it is not my only class TODAY. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to shuffle paperwork as the professor runs long by 5, 10, up to 20 minutes! The next prof will think I’m pulling a version of number 2 when I explain that an adult actually locked a door so that I could not leave at our scheduled time. Please also recognize when your students are adults. I know we all hate cellphones but if I have kids or the divorce lawyer needs access to me or my aging parents worry sick when I don’t answer when they call, I’m not some tech addicted kid disrespecting your class. I know we all like to idealize “the good ol’ days” when college was a carefree time to slack off, but economic and lifestyle pressures for many of us means that college is a sacrifice, not a vacation from “the real world”. A lot of us are trying to manage both, simultaneously.
jffoster - November 19, 2009 at 7:03 am
This “essay” raised rather more mature points than the first. Coybean, (4), the professorial behavior indicated in your first paragraph, assuming no pieces are missing, is probably illegal and presumption of evidence of improper confinement and kidnapping, and is almost certainly a violation of your college’s policy. See the department head or dean. Re your 2nd paragrqaph, adults don’t use the items you listed to justify letting their cell phones disrupt a class.
richarddeu - November 19, 2009 at 8:07 am
I agree with jffoster and coybean’s comments, but literarytype I think it is important to draw upon what students are learning beyond one’s classroom from other professors, students, and even work. Also, they’re troupers, unless of course they are majoring in criminal justice to become troopers.
cleverclogs - November 19, 2009 at 9:01 am
OK, Gina’s student, now here’s something you need to know from your prof. You are not my only student. I have 119 other people whose grandmothers have died, have the swine flu, want to revise their substandard paper which they blew off the first time around, etc. I hear about twenty excuses a week for why I need to practice leniency. And you know, most of the time I’m pretty accommadating. I meet with students outside of office hours to work around their tight schedules. I answer emails within hours. This is all in addition to the time I spend doing my own research and service to the department.Every special accommodation I make means more time making special assignments, correcting and just keeping track of whose assignments are coming in late, who got an extension, etc. That’s a lot of extra time which I usually offer happily because I want my students to do well. But if you show up not having done the reading or unwilling to offer any insight in class but instead just want to sit there like a lump because you’re tired from your four other classes, I start to think I’m a sucker. I start to think, how can I get your attention and make sure you do the reading? I know, I’ll add an assignment…Hold up your end of the bargain and you’ll find less work coming your way.
nuenglish - November 19, 2009 at 9:56 am
Re #3, group work: some of your professors are encouraged (read: pre-tenures are REQUIRED as a condition of job security) to do stupid things in the classroom. We get marching orders from higher ups on the latest fads to sweep through; we get evaluated on whether or not we’re complying with the buzz-words (these days, it’s “engaging” the students, and god help me I think we’re returning to “empowering” students). It doesn’t always come from us! — jlaurel
trumajc - November 19, 2009 at 10:00 am
Dear Michelle P. Carter,It’s kinda cool to see that the typical “whiny college student” complaints haven’t really changed since I was a whining student 20 years ago. We all thought our professors were comically foolish (we even made the same drinking game jokes–classic!), we were outraged that faculty were skeptical of our motives (don’t they understand that we are good people? Outrageous!), we too were indignant that our professors didn’t understand how hard our lives were (we had other classes, too! We also had jobs! Real jobs, that paid real money!!!). The only new complaint is the anti-group work argument, which wasn’t very common back in my student days. So, I guess I should thank you, now that I’m a professor, for pointing out that things haven’t really changed…and, therefore, what you think your professors don’t know, they in fact already do know from having been students once.This may be something you didn’t know about us…we were once you!!!!:-)
spc09lib - November 19, 2009 at 10:03 am
If you cannot handle the workload of your classes and 25 hour a week of job, either reduce the number of work hours or the number of classes. As you pointed out, you are paying a lot of money for your education. Don’t turn aroung and ask your professors to reach less because you cannot handle the load. That is the equivent of asking them to cheat you.I won’t even address the idea that you didn’t have to choose a school that cost that much.
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 10:12 am
Everyone is so defensive about the workload criticism. No one is defending his/her mannerisms. I find this interesting.
hawkeyecc - November 19, 2009 at 10:28 am
michygeary–why would we…most of us know ourselves very well, and those mannerisms are part of us. I as a professor do it to the students. I have the head-bobber, the nodder, the what-just-barely-appropriitae-shirt-is-he-going-to-wear-today guy, and more. They do it to us, we do it to them. :)
22270870 - November 19, 2009 at 10:29 am
I’m tempted to hope that these two columns are merely an attempt at humor; otherwise, they only accomplish one thing – affirming the worst of the Millennial stereotypes.
sross - November 19, 2009 at 11:09 am
Students working in groups works well when professors understand conmpletely why they are using this strategy and knowing how to do it. I know of no teacher who does this well who allows students to match up with their “friends.” There are a number of assumptions underlying the don’t make this mandatory complaint. Done well, and with intentionality, students working in groups should be mandatory at times in higher education. Why don’t we hear a complaint about constant lecture being mandatory?!
isugeezer - November 19, 2009 at 11:44 am
Oh, I just love this one: “But then again, you also need to recognize when a student is telling the truth.” Just how am I supposed to do this? I’m pretty smart, but I can’t read minds. Many of the most sincere-looking and -sounding students (and those who present “evidence” such as doctors’ notes and obituaries) are eventually revealed to be accomplished liars.
madamesmartypants - November 19, 2009 at 11:58 am
Strange to see an essay where a student asks for respect and to be treated as an adult, while at the same time, points out all the ridiculous and juvenile things (e.g., making fun of teachers behind their backs) that they apparently think we don’t know about! If students want to be treated like adults, they have to act like adults, and not just “sometimes” or “when I feel like it.” As far as group work goes, I agree that some assignments are not well-suited to it. However, consider it job prep. Don’t like working with people? Are shy, prefer working alone, feel like other people will steal your work? Welcome to the real world. That’s exactly what working in an office is like. You’ll constantly be working with people on various projects, sometimes people you dislike, sometimes people who are useless, duplicitous, and lazy. Colleges are under pressure to show the public that they train students in practical, job-oriented skills…and here they are. Better to learn those skills now than wait until your salary depends on it. As far as actual, grown-up adults with children and/or complicated lives go, I have far fewer problems with this group and hardly any problems making accommodations for them. That’s because they tell me, right up front, what kinds of accommodations they need–without waiting until the situation comes up and then belatedly explaining what happened. If you have a special situation–no matter how minor–talk to your professor about it in advance. He/she’ll be far more willing to listen before a situation arises than after.
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Madame Smarty Pants:I’m curious to know where you read “please treat us like adults” in this essay.Thanks.
kcghaspel - November 19, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Why work in groups? Because it is what you will HAVE to do, and do well, in nearly any profession you go into, dear student, in spite of your socialization as a rugged individualist and dreams of being an entrepreneur. You should know that many professors loathe group work as much as their students do because it is hard work for all involved. Then why do it? Last time this Communication Studies professor checked, the so called “communication skills” that employers claim they are looking for in graduates include, sometimes at the top of the list, “working in teams” (check out some of the interviews with CEOs in The New York Times’ Notes from the Corner Office. e.g.).
11182967 - November 19, 2009 at 1:02 pm
As a student I worked hard to be teacher distractor and smart-ass. (When I walked into Bob Money’s history class on that day in Novermber 1963 to announce that JFK had been shot, Money thought I was making it up to be smart). When I became a teacher myself I carefully cultivated several fairly prominent, but innocuous idosyncrasies as red herrings for my student successors–always walking into class with a coffee cup, taking off my jacket and rolling up my sleeves to start class, dropping an eraser two or three times a class session. When students imitated me they invariably picked up on these mannerisms and almost never caught out what were certainly other, less flattering ones. And I always made sure that there were occasions when students could laugh at something I did–and I could laugh along with them. We tried hard to take the work seriously but to be a little easier on ourselves. A teacher should never forget to look at himself or herself with the eyes of the student he or she once was–and to take into account what those eyes see.
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 1:10 pm
0837498246210442389075243: That makes you pretty much the coolest.
rlevine - November 19, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I was teaching a five-week, one-credit class in grant writing, and the only assignment was for each to write a two-page grant proposal. Several students demanded that they be able to do it in a group. When I wouldn’t let them, they dropped the class. Sometimes you can’t win.
ex_ag - November 19, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Okay, I suppose Dr. Barreca intended for this to be a “cute” post where we admire all the charming little things a darling student says. And this would be cute–if the student was 9. But coming from an adult, this list has very little humor to it.But since we are opening a dialogue, allow me to add my own comments. Some of them will sound familiar:1. We notice your mannerism, too. Though I refrain from mocking you for them, I notice your eye rolls. I notice the groans you make when I announce a test. And I notice the snide grins. I also notice when you are doing math problems in English class and writing an essay in Math class. And I also know when you’re texting–unless you want to admit that you are THAT interested in your own crotch. Finally, I notice all the tells in your face when you lie to us…which brings us to number 2…2. I’m sorry your grandmother really did die. But, yes, in fact, I have had a student dumb enough to use the dead-granny gambit three times in one semester. You truly have no idea how often we are lied to. And please remember, I’m skeptical on behalf of all the honest students in my class. Part of my job is to maintain an even playing field among students and I work hard to make sure dishonest students don’t gain an unfair advantage. But you are right; this is an affront to your dignity. It is also an affront to mine.3. Group work. See all the posts mentioning job skills above. No one likes to work in groups. But you’ll need to. Bummer.4. You are not my only student. This is not my only class. You too know this. But you too don’t understand it. So, you pay attention, as well. I can’t make a concession or bend a rule for one student without doing the same for all students. It’s not fair. And, yes, students in my other classes hear about how I treat my other classes. So, the problem with concessions and exceptions only blossoms. And in case you haven’t noticed, all the classes around here have been getting larger and all the professors are teaching more of them. This is because the state legislature has told us to do more with less. When we complained, guess what they said? “Grow up. Life isn’t easy. And if you think it’s bad now, just wait until next fiscal year when the budget gets even tighter.”5. Please allow me to teach you without condemning me. I’m not trying to do anything TO you when I assign tests and papers. Let’s be honest for a minute. You and I both know that–if I didn’t give tests and papers–you wouldn’t bother to learn anything in my class. It was–and is–the same for me. So, let’s stop all this juvenile whining about how your professors are in on some kind of conspiracy to drive you crazy. Truth be told, when we’re not at work, we don’t really think about you at all. And when we are at work, we’re simply doing what is necessary to re-enforce the material we’ve covered in class. Stop making us into the enemy because of that. And, by the way, if you want respect, how about giving some? You seem to feel no guilt about mocking your professors, and in doing so, you demonstrate that you clearly do not see us as human beings. Likewise, your admission last time–that you’d prefer not to see us in public places because it’s awkward–only underscores the naive attitude you are bringing to the classroom. If you want to be treated with respect, offer it. If you won’t do that, don’t be surprised if we snarl at you and bite your heads off. Respect is never a one-way street.
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Ex Ag:Your comment is my favorite because you are the perfect hypocrite.First you trash the format for not being “cute” since it’s coming from an adult. Then you employ the exact same format for your retort. Next you say “I don’t mock you for your mannerisms” and then proceed to mock the mannerisms you notice.But the greatest thing about your comment preaching “show respect in order to get respect” is that you’re not showing any yourself. Your words were as nasty, if not nastier, than those in the essay, yet you’re demanding students respect teachers. You’re absolutely right that respect is never one way. So if you’re the professor, why not set the example instead of sinking to the level of the immature student?For a professor, you are not a very careful reader. To clarify one point: the suggestion was not “stop giving me homework because I don’t like it.” It was “I’d be perfectly happy to do homework for your class if I was given a reasonable amount of it.” The suggestion is that you choose a few assignments that are most important to your curriculum and really spend time with them. Isn’t that better than assigning fifty projects, all slightly different, with which your students will do half-assed jobs, blow off entirely, or develop those absurd excuses we heard about in number two? As a professor, you should want your students to succeed. If you do, assign a practical amount of work so that they can actually do it. You’re partially right when you say “if I didn’t give tests and papers–you wouldn’t bother to learn anything in my class.” I’ll skip right over the fact that I would actually love to audit classes just to learn, and I’ll point out that what you’ve said is exactly the point. Students need to do their homework in order to learn. They’re only going to do the work if they can manage it. If you want students to do the work, don’t go overboard. Be reasonable. That’s the best way to ensure that they actually do the work you assign. That was the point. I’m sorry if you missed it.
d_opiniated - November 19, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Work groups in business flow naturally from the task at hand. They bear little resemblance to classroom assignments. I have to side with the students on this one. The mismatched schedules and inefficiencies of group dynamics make group assignments particularly onerous. The real world may not always appropriately reward the work of individuals, but universities need not intentionally model these failures. Group assignments can certainly be appropriate, but they should be approached with caution.
erikjensen - November 19, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I don’t think that many of the criticisms of the writer by professors are fair. My philosophy is that my students are my customers. They are doing me a favor by taking my class. I am not doing them a favor by teaching the class. I get paid. They can behave however they want as long as they don’t cause disruptions. They can ask for extensions, and I am free to say no. I’ll make the lectures and homework as worthwhile as possible, but students can skip them and I’m not going to get huffy. They can make fun of me behind my back, or they can make fun of me to my face and I’ll laugh with them. People with thin skin or inflated egos should not be teachers at any level.
ex_ag - November 19, 2009 at 2:47 pm
michygeary, I am what my students have made me. If you were a more careful reader (and observer of the classroom dynamic), you would have noticed what comes first in all of these exchanges. In each case, the dynamic is dicated by students, not professors.You also might have “gotten” the fact that I am purposefully using the same format as the student in an effort to show how these things go both ways. Sorry I didn’t spell that one out for you.As far as your overall attitude: It is all nice and charming to beat one’s breasts over the “awesome power” we professors supposedly have over students. But it is foolish to refuse to acknowledge the power students have in shaping a classroom experience. A bad apple does, in fact, ruin the barrel. And, to be clear, I do not mock my students for their mannerisms. Nor do I see what I am doing here as mocking. Pointing out that a dinner partner has broccoli in her teeth is not the same thing as pointing and laughing. I’m not laughing.
anon4now - November 19, 2009 at 4:16 pm
5 Things I learned about Students from “5 things …, part 2″:1. We make lists of profs’ weird mannerisms: Here I learned that students focus on superficial visual and auditory cues, not on content; not on substance but on style. I learned that they spend creative energy on surfaces without attending to what really counts. I learned that my students are more superficial than I thought 20-year-olds might reasonably be in these advanced times…2. Grandma really did die. Here I learned that students seek a sympathetic response to a personal situation—a justifiable desire—but without acknowledging or even grasping the full ethical problem and context of that desire. (Without grasping, in other words, that sympathy, without some way of openly sorting truth from lies and only according sympathy to true sufferings, is damaging to everyone involved.) The problem is not the professor’s lack of automatic sympathy: the problem is students’ lies that necessitate and inculcate a prof’s blanket lack of sympathy. I thus learned here that students are at a lower developmental stage of moral reasoning—a really shallow, narcissistic, simplistic level of self-focused ethical reasoning–than I thought 20 year olds might reasonably have achieved in these advanced times…(think Perry-stage adolescents)3. Working in groups should never be mandatory. Here I was truly surprised, since I’ve always hated assigning group work but thought students liked it and were comfortable with it. This has helped me: no more group work. Good! (If I were feeling snarky about this one instead of sincere, I might make a crack about letting the inmates run the institution: don’t like group work? no more group work. Don’t like work at all? Well, let’s just skip that, too. How about we watch movies all semester? Sounds great. And if Grandma dies, or even if she doesn’t, there’s no absence penalty: feel free to lie and ignore the consequences of tolerating liars all around you. You can count on my sympathy no matter what.) Really, I’m fine with no more group work–I have no interest in preparing team-worker-cogs for the corporate machine. Thanks, Student! 4. You are not my only prof; this is not my only class. Yes, well, in addition to learning that yet another student can’t distinguish between COURSES and CLASSES: here I learned that students feel overwhelmed by even the laughably light intellectual demands placed on them these days. Yet I also learned here that the students assume that their primary task is not actually to learn. In most schools this is a matter of desperate economic times, and for students working so much & struggling, I really do feel bad. But here again, we have a narcissistic system operating in the student’s head, and the reasoning goes something like this: “I feel overworked, so you must stop doing what YOU are supposed to be doing in order to assuage my discomfort. I am pretending to be here to get an education, perhaps deluding myself pretty well that I really want one (as long as there is no discomfort involved), but in order to make things easier on me, I am asking you NOT to provide that education.” Here again I am learning that there is an incredibly shallow reasoning going on here, an almost complete failure to understand anything outside the student’s own wishes/discomfort. 5. Teach me without condemning me. OK, I already knew that students spot the anger that comes from some profs. I agree with this student that profs who condemn without cause are awful (I have some colleagues who carry around a lot of ire against students, before a student has even crossed the horizon, much less done anything to provoke the anger). That’s bad, very bad. But let’s look more closely: when, if ever, is professorial anger rightly provoked, or justified? Isn’t contempt the right response to what is contemptible? Isn’t condemnation precisely right in some cases? (I hope profs can hold contemptible actions and ideas and words in contempt, and condemn them, without condemning the student involved. That is tricky but important. I probably failed at it in parts of this post.) But I wonder, given the rather astonishing narcissism of the previous 4 points, can such students as this typical one be counted on to discern when a condemnatory response is warranted? I also am puzzled by the formulation “Teach me” here—I can explain my material to you; you cannot sit there passively and expect to be changed by my doing something to you or for you. You have to learn. I don’t “teach you,” & I don’t “give you a grade”; I explain the material with as much clarity, passion, and high-quality exemplification and analysis as possible. Occasionally there is wit. No offense, but this is not about YOU. And it’s equally not about ME. This is about ideas and problems that will outlive both of us and our great-grandchildren, ideas that have been here for millennia. So listen up. We have a brief moment of opportunity here to join that long conversation in a serious way. I know a good bit about this and will gladly talk about it in an organized way, twice a week; but you have to show up ready, read, work, listen, ask. I can’t “teach you” or “give you a grade” or do anything. Sigh. I really think you won’t even be able to understand that difference. But I’ll take my time to try to explain it. Again. Maybe what I’ve learned here is that college should be reserved for those 35 and older, who have demonstrated a desire and an ability to do intellectual work and who have, moreover, passed beyond narcissistic stages of development and reasoning. And the good thing I have learned (as I do every Tuesday and Thursday) is how great my senior seminar students are! They are not like this, no. Nothing like this. Thank goodness. Gina B, you’re a hero and saint of patience.
trumajc - November 19, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Wow…i can’t wait to see the responses to erikjensen’s comment that his “students are [his] customers,” and that “they are doing [him]a favor by taking [his] class.” I didn’t know the service industry model applied…i thought my students paid the institution, not me. Nor did i know anyone was doing anyone a favor! I’ll have to re-evaluate my whole understanding of teaching…
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 5:03 pm
The other great thing about Professor Barreca, anon4now, is that she is able to read these essays by her students without taking them personally. She finds them interesting and worth sharing, rather than offensive or a reason to aggressively put students in their places from on high.
lcbane - November 19, 2009 at 6:17 pm
I’ve just gone back into the undergraduate classroom as a student after 30 years in teaching. It’s been a refreshing experience — I am not as rusty as I feared (in fact I’m doing better than 100%) and my fellow students are not all as unskilled as my recent experience teaching University 101/orientation had led me to believe. They are, however, much less skilled than they think.Here are some of my reactions as a student.1. We make lists of all your weird-ass mannerisms.”Your weird-ass mannerisms” is not very respectful. There are better ways to phrase this.As many previous posters have pointed out — it’s two-way street and students are the larger group, so they provide much more potential for mockery and drinking games than professors do. My professor this semester is relatively free of any detracting mannerisms, so I am enjoying class very much. Even if she had distracting mannerisms, I am interested enough in the content to overlook them.2. Grandma really did die.I try not to make tasteless remarks. I think most professors try not to as well, but as per other respondents have pointed out — How is a professor to judge your honesty and sincerity? How many times have you actually talked to him/her before or after class? How many times have you been in his/her office during office hours? How many times have you e-mailed him/her about an absence before being absent? Usually none. So — how is the professor to know you’re a decent person who doesn’t lie to get out of meeting deadlines?According to the Josephson Institute of Ethics survey in 2008: 83% of high school students admitted that they lied to their parents about something important, 64% admitted they cheated on a test, and 83% admitted they copied homework. My own experience tells me that more and more students lie to me than in the past.So — a professor will try to be sympathetic when Grandma dies, but while he/she can’t demand proof and have little evidence to determine my honesty — I would contact the Dean’s Office about the absence and get a group excuse in all my classes or I might bring back a memorial pamphlet from the funeral home or send him/her a link to Grandma’s obituary online. If I want the leniency and sympathy, then I have to do my part in making sure my professors know I really have a problem.3. Working in groups should never be mandatory.I hate group work. As teacher, I always offer it as option, but it’s a necessary skill and you’re going to have to do it on the job. My students, however, take up the group option because they think it will be easier. Then they make their groups larger than I recommend because a larger group means less work for the individual. And finally, they complain to me about trying to get everyone together and how some people slacked off and didn’t hold up their end of the work (even though I warned them and gave them advice about group size and assigning tasks) — but at the same time they put the slacker’s name on the project when they turn it in, so I can’t justify giving the slacker a “0″ for the project.As a student, when I am told to do a group project, I don’t look for “a friend.” I look for a “good student” to team up with. I try to make sure eveyone participates.This fall, I attended a workshop about group testing. Apparently some courses (sciences and nursing were mentioned) are making 10-25% of the test a group effort. Instructor-determined groups (1 good, 2 average, 1 poor student) go back over the test after taking it as individuals and as a group decide on the correct answer. Then that grade is added to their individual scores. As a student, I would be upset at this. I think the group work should be done before the test or after the test. If the idea is to improve learning and not just boost test scores, then why not simply do it as an in-class exercise before the exam as a review class or when the tests are returned?4. You are not my only professor. This is not my only class.There’s nothing the professor or the student can do about the amount of work involved. The course is worth a certain amount of credits and a certain amount of learning has to take place. As an instructor, I do not put in extra homework assignments because I have to grade everything I assign. Believe it or not, I spend more time grading than students do working on the assignment. I’m not doing this to torture you. I’m doing it because I can’t get you to read the chapters or practice the skills unless I give you assignments.As a student, I see assignments as challenges and learning tools. Attitude makes the difference! I try to use them to promote my learning for the test. I read the whole chapter before I answer the questions. I read the assignment instructions before I start writing the essay. I go back over the assignment and check that I’ve included all the necessary items in my answers/essay.As others have said: if you cannot handle the work load, drop a class or drop a couple of work hours. If your response to overload it to do nothing but sit and play Freecell, get yourself to the Counseling Center: you need some help with coping skills at the least or more seriously depression. While you’re at it, take a trip to the Academic Success Center/Tutoring Center and get some help with scheduling and planning. It’s difficult to change three tests in one day, but if you’ve got two tests and a paper due on the same day, you can plan to finish paper a week ahead of time, and only have two tests on one day. As for the two tests, you can study smart by using study groups or dividing up the studying for the exams and spacing it out over a week or two. But doing these things take scheduling and planning. There are better solutions than doing nothing and playing Freecell. It’s not an acceptable solution to the problem. It’s also not an “adult” solution.5. Teach me without condemning me.Please…give me a break. I believe what I teach is important. I believe that I have something to offer, That’s why I stand up at the front of the class and risk public humiliation. I offer my expertise to groups of people: some of whom take advantage of my knowledge and some who dismiss it.I believe that anyone who wants to learn and works at it can learn. I will only condemn you if you skip my class, skip my assignments, cheat, plagiarize, or sit and whine without making any credible attempt at work. As a student, I believe that what the teacher has to say is important and worth my time and attention. When I do decide that the teacher isn’t meeting my expectations, then I have to choose what _I_ will do about the situation: 1. Drop the class (if possible).2. Skip class and only show up for tests and to hand in assignments (if it doesn’t lower my grade).3. Suck up and deal: go to class and go through the motions wihout distracting the professor and other students and doing what I have to do to get the credit and the best possible grade.It’s my choice; it’s my responsibility.As a fellow student, I will only condemn you if you cheat, plagiarize, or distract me (or the professor and the rest of the class) from class activities. As a mature (=older), more serious, and (probably) smarter student, I will turn around and tell you to zip it or leave. I will only condemn the professor if he/she is incompetent or just not doing the work — but I won’t do it publicly in class. I will do it in the course evaluation or through organizational channels. How else can I expect change to occur?
drziggy - November 19, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Alas, we have finally found some of the reasons why higher education in the U.S. ranks so low among the industrialized countries of the world…I have to admit, it was amusing reading all of the above commentary and witnessing the verbal jousting that has taken place…As a student I always respected those professors that deserved and earned respect.As a professor, I respect all of the students that earn and deserve respect as well.(P.S. almost fell off the chair laughing when I read the comment about texting about” being fascinated by your own crotch…”), so a propos…
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 7:00 pm
People are taking this essay/assignment and the points therein WAY too seriously.Suddenly playing a card game equals depression? Forgive me if I fail to see that logic.
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Also, lcbane, I would advise against saying “I try not to make tasteless remarks” and then following it up with a tasteless remark about depression. It’s not funny.
phikaw - November 19, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I assign group work in class only. but I make the groups, at first on a random basis, then more deliberately as I get to know the students. I allow students to pair up — if they want to, but they are not required to — when taking a midterm. After the midterm, they are again divided into groups of my making to work on writing up explanations of what the correct answer is for anything they got wrong (each explanation is worth half-credit). I am aware of the free-rider problem and thus never assign out of class group work. I also vary the in class groups. It’s not perfect, but in-class group work does seem to get students grappling with the material in a way that just listening to a lecture does not. For whatever this might be worth on the topic of group work.
goxewu - November 19, 2009 at 9:55 pm
The solution to “grandma died” is simple: No excused absences, period.Should that sound harsh, mind that I adhere to the traditional rule of thumb that a student is entitled to as many absences as the number of times the class meets in a week. After that–say, two absences in a TTh course–the grade is affected negatively, especially if discussion is part of the course content. I don’t care whether those first two absences were occasioned by family funerals or hangovers; I’m in the business of teaching, not adjudicating reasons for not coming to class.If a student in that hypothetical TTh class was proceeding just fine with two absences until, late in the semester, but then grandma did die, well, tough luck. Should’ve saved those hangover absences for a rainy day. If a student actually did have three family funerals (or two funerals and a broken ankle playing racquetball or whatever combo), also–and literally–tough luck. I can’t pro-rate for misfortune. “Time and chance happeneth to them all,” etc.If there’s an ongoing medical problem (e.g., mono) or psychological problem (depression keeps the student in bed) or economic problem (car to get to school blew an engine), it’s a matter for one of the university offices, not for me to play counselor. Overall, I don’t worry much about those “five things” elaborated upon by Ms. Carter. I get enough students who happily do the work, contribute sparklingly to class discussion, write really good papers, get nice grades (yeah, I give a lot of C’s) and then show up later to solicit recommendation letters for graduate school so that I’m pretty sure the ones who might complain about one or more of those “five things” in my teaching have done brung ‘em upon theyselves.Anyway, the whole deal–Ms. Carter’s paper, Prof. Barreca’s pride in it–is a marshmallow. It’s rigorless high school stuff.
michygeary - November 19, 2009 at 10:52 pm
What’s most amusing about these comments–besides the fact that all the professors having tantrums are the ones who are obviously guilty of these things themselves or they wouldn’t take it so personally and write so defensively–is that the students didn’t write these things to be whiny or recalcitrant. It was assigned. Essays full of sycophantic drivel wouldn’t have fit the prompt. They were ASKED to criticize their professors. So rather than feel outraged at the content, rejoice that these students rose to the occasion of the assignment. These are the ones who are doing their homework.
ex_ag - November 19, 2009 at 11:07 pm
As goxewu pointed out, the assignment was a marshmallow.And, if I may be so blunt, if this was a creative writing assignment, it grossly missed the mark. There’s nothing creative here–just the same old cliches we professors see all the time.If you want an assignment that isn’t a marshmallow, I’ll offer one for you (since it seems obvious that you are one of Dr. Barreca’s students and likely the author of this piece): Instead of criticizing others, take a long, hard look at yourself. Ask yourself why you choose to mock others for their idiosyncratic mannerisms. Ask yourself if you are really in a position to judge your professors. Ask yourself, honestly, how you would perform in their place and if you could do their job. Ask yourself how much you really grow or learn in a stress-free and pressure-free environment. I’d be much more interested in seeing a student’s honest appraisal of him/herself and his/her prejudices.For myself, I know I am far from perfect. Nor did I ever claim to be. But what is most troubling here is that you will not offer one criticism of the student behaviors that others have noted as problems. That says a lot.
tendrecroppes - November 19, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Hey Michelle,Nice job! Your essay was entertaining and poignant (as was clearly the point). I’ve been teaching for five years at a state university, and this was a funny and unexpected perspective at my job. (Now I won’t be able to give a lecture without wondering which celebrity I look like… I’m fond to think Brad Pitt, but who knows.) I’m glad to see that Dr. Barreca doesn’t forget the CREATIVE part of a creative writing course, and I’m glad to see a student who isn’t afraid to let it all hang out. And hey, ex_ag: if I was your student, I think I’d agree with Michelle. …
dwunsch - November 20, 2009 at 7:51 am
Michelle, you may be destined to join our ranks. :-)
tinapickles - November 20, 2009 at 9:08 am
What is disturbing about this “article” is that the student fails to recognize much of what others have already responded to. To you, student writer, I say this:1. We too notice your “weird” mannerisms–the falling asleep in class, the disrespectful chit-chat during lecture, the texting, lateness/lack of attendance–and are not only boggled by your lack of decorum (and I’m not that much older than current/modern students) but grade you accordingly. It’s YOUR grade, and YOU have the right to earn a bad grade or fail because of your “weird mannerisms.”2. Learn now that life is, sometimes (if not frequently) difficult. Know that we instructors try our best to be sympathetic to your changing life, but life happens, and frequently, life is unfair. Responsibility ALSO happens. If you want to make excuses (real or otherwise) indicating events that prohibit you from attending class, so be it. Recognize you will be graded accordingly. 3. I concede, working in groups sucks. I also concede that some projects are not suited to group work. I, personally, was never a fan of it myself. However, you WILL have to do this in real-life. My advice to you is to hold your group members accountable–if one isn’t pulling their weight, then it is YOUR responsibility to let them know so. Where is it written that you have to pull your own weight and theirs too? Remember, you will be graded accordingly. 4. You probably don’t know this (because your own immediate needs are all you think about), so pay attention. I teach FOUR other classes in addition to yours. That means I have 99 other students, as well as yourself that I have to worry about. Additionally, part of my job is to create works that add to and enhance academia some how. Furthermore, despite my 5 course load, I often have to pick up ANOTHER job because I am an adjunct. So between grading, researching, writing, and working an additional 25 hours a week at some minimum wage job, I also have to attempt leading a “normal” life–including eating, taking care of the needs of my family, etc. So please, don’t tell me you want it easy–life isn’t easy. In fact, if that’s all you learn from college, then I suppose, in some respect, we’ve done our jobs as instructors.5. Be a diligent student. Learn time management, learn respect, learn how to become a functioning adult. Put as much of your heart into your education as we do into teaching you. Your education is privilege, not a right. Treat it as such.
photographyuncapped - November 20, 2009 at 9:11 am
There is no recession driven downturn of insensitivity on all sides of these issues. Just last night I had a student glowing/texting in a darkened room during a demo. And students use personal devices, which light up, in the school’s photographic darkrooms potentially ruining expensive photo paper, theirs and other students’.My current favorite Student Hall-of-Fame entry for a student excuse goes to: http://www.photographyuncapped.com/the-drunk-napkin-excuse-nomination-for-the-student-hall-of-fame/tips-for-students/2009/09/
goxewu - November 20, 2009 at 9:45 am
Re #34:1. The professors’ comments aren’t anymore “trantrums” than is the OP.2. The idea that professors’ rebutting the OP somehow indicates in itself that they’re “obviously guilty of these things,” is the academic (and I use the word loosely in regard to michygeary) equivalent of, “Oh yeah? So are you!” Besides, this is extendable ad infinitum: michygeary, in protesting the professors’ protests, is “obviously guilty” of what they’re charging students with, and so on, into the night.3. The students may not have written what they did in order to be “whiney or recalcitrant,” but that’s the way they turned out. Unintended consequences, etc.4. The essays may have been an assignment, but the assignment was a path-of-least-resistance, I’m-not-your-professor-I’m-your-buddy, rigorless crock. GIGO, etc.5. The students (if Ms. Carter is representative) didn’t “rise” to the occasion; they dipped to it.6. There’s no evidence of anyone doing anything that could be dignified with the label “homework,” let alone research.And you gotta love #36, defending a female writer by calling her critic a “douche.”
fast_and_bulbous - November 20, 2009 at 9:58 am
I’ve never assigned group work before, but next semester I am teaching a large lab class and have decided I will use one of these new cutting edge teaching techniques by having students “learn from each other.” Actually, I just want to cut down on the amount of grading I have to do. However in all seriousness I will give any student the option of working on lab assignments alone should they choose to do so.Yes I’m serious about cutting down on the grading.
lcbane - November 20, 2009 at 10:39 am
#30 & #31″On the whole, the workload needs to calm the hell down because my inclination is to just play Free Cell until I lose a game, and so far I’m undefeated.”First, I thought I was being respectful. I didn’t assume that she blew off the work simply because she didn’t feel like it or she was lazy or she was incapable of doing it. I assumed she blew it off because she couldn’t cope in a more productive way. Second, maybe my experience with depression and people suffering from depression is different than yours.Not doing productive work when you have multiple projects due is avoidance. It is not a healthy coping mechanism. You may get by with it once a semester, and it could be a sign of being only temporarily stressed. However, it can snowball out of control very easily and become a real problem.One of the symptoms of being clinically depressed is “you feel hopeless and helpless.” How else would you describe shutting down and playing Freecell for hours when you’ve got “too much to do”?If I had a student/friend/colleague who told me they were so overwhelmed that they weren’t doing any course work, but simply sitting around watching TV or playing Freecell or any other non-productive activity for hours at a time, I would advise them to get some help.
sgtrock - November 20, 2009 at 11:51 am
I enjoyed this tongue-in-cheek article. Although I’ve been teaching for 35 years, I still remember the lunacy that passed for my undergraduate years.One serious notion seems to have been overlooked, however. Undergraduate students have a poor understanding of what is expected of them. I tell my students that they should expect 3-5 hours work outside class for every hour in class, thus 15 hours of course work translates into 60 hours per week — clearly a full-time load. If students understand what their total academic workload will be, in my experience they will behave appropriately. I suppose they will still whine a bit, but that is their right …
rangerrog - November 20, 2009 at 11:56 am
Having never taught in college and being asked to teach next spring, I appreciate the mix of responses and reactions in these comments…Once again I am humbled and encouraged by the reality that I walk into this class with a glass 1/2 full and 1/2 empty…The full half contains what I have learned and retained, things that are still useful and meaningful about how the subject matter and how it applies outside academia; the other half is all the things I have yet to learn about my subject matter and the students who walk into class with their glasses 1/2 full and 1/2 empty. Isn’t this where we begin to make the real deal about the learning agenda, expectations and mutual accountability over the next 15 weeks?…I didn’t think I was signing up for this teaching gig as an exercise in PMT101-”Professorial-Mannerisms-Tracking 101″. But if this the core of your thing, have at it. Like most students and teachers, I’ve got my particular imperfections too. Do you think maybe that’s what makes any of us really interesing? If you simply want to show up to gauge and paste up all my minuta via PMT 101, have it but don’t leave your own minuta out of this public human mirror.
dank48 - November 20, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Boy, oh, boy: some of the commentors should rewatch “The Breakfast Club”; it’s been long enough that the high-school detention students probably look a lot like undergrads now.This whole thread would make a great reading for a longer assignment. “Do teachers and students take themselves too seriously, and do they both misunderstand themselves, each other, and the world in general? Explain, supporting your conclusions.”Rangerrog, good luck. Bear in mind the difference between an optimist, a pessimist, and a realist, respectively: “The glass is half full.” “The glass is half empty.” “The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.”
cousinannie - November 20, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Fun piece! I bristled a little at times, then laughed at my own bristling (and that of others). It looks like the writer did what she set out to do! I recognized the bombastic, hyperbolic, self-contradictory snark that epitomizes late adolescent posturing. Putting myself back in the college student mindset, I found this list very funny. Then, after filtering out the snark, some valid points emerged too.What the writer does NOT reveal is that she, like many college students, probably has had that special professor or teacher who was simultaneously able to demand hard work and have students willing to walk into hell for him/her. Yes, I envy those teachers, but it’s not my students’ fault that I am not one (yet).It’s up to faculty to not get caught up in power plays. Otherwise, they’re doomed – the kids will inevitably win that game. Dare to be made fun without flinching (even on the inside). And when your student says something bratty yet funny, TRY to occasionally laugh and put it in context.
michygeary - November 20, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Congratulations, cousinannie, for being the first to actually understand the entire point of this assignment.
goxewu - November 20, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Re #46 and 47:Awwww…..(and now a nice big hug).
katiebeautifulkatie - November 20, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Goxewu–nice one! Witty, well-written, and beautifully argued, as usual.
goxewu - November 20, 2009 at 1:54 pm
You’re being sarcastic, right Katie? I’m sensitive and don’t want to get my hopes up.
mrmars - November 20, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Want a little cheese with that “whine?” “Ex Ag” (above) has it about right. Too bad we can’t require all students to serve in the military first. I think they’d look at the “horrible demands” of college in a slightly different light.PS, If this article was intended as tongue-in-cheek, then as Gilda Radner’s “Emily Litella” used to say on Saturday Night Live: “Never mind.”
anjalit - November 20, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I’m really appalled by the responses to this post. First, there’s something about satire that seems to go over most commenters’ heads. The lack of empathy regarding “grandma really did die” is also astounding and personally verifies everything “wrong” in pedagogy. As someone who had faced multiple deaths in my family, longterm mental health issues, a heavy academic and work schedule, and so on during my undergraduate experience, I never asked my professors to be my counselors. I think it illustrates a lack of humanity on professors’ parts to not have a holistic view of education. None of us are cogs in wheels. Even though you, professor, may feel like your class is the center of the universe, it certainly is not. Believing it is will only further alienate your students, especially those who have genuine interest in learning. To not view your students as whole people actually signifies an immense lack of responsiblity, maturity, and disassociation from the realities of life. It is simply bad teaching and reflects horrible interpersonal skills. If a student fails multiple classes in a quarter/semester because of personal issues, and professors are not willing to give an incomplete for the student to properly do their work, what does that mean? That means a student would have to shell out several thousand dollars more for another semester, possibly ruin their chances of going into graduate school (or whatever their goals may be), and feel guilt/further compromise their well being. Basically, it makes higher education inaccessible. Shame on you for not being able to take humorous criticism as constructive. Cousinannie is on point. The professors who supported me through the difficult times with compassion and empahy verified my own commitment to work towards graduate school. There were also plenty who lived in their impossible utopias and exhibited grandiosity — if you don’t want to teach, get another job. I graduated with highest honors from an R1 university. Those without commitment to their students and supportive learning might as well hole up in a cubicle and pretend like the outside world doesn’t exist.
lotsoquestions - November 20, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Yes, I have a lot of weird mannerisms. I also have Asperger’s syndrome and probably could have better people skills. The ones I do have are hard-won and the result of years of practice. I say “um”, I hem and haw and sometimes I even crack my knuckles. I rock back and forth on my toes, and I’m probably not a very snappy dresser. Many of you sorority girls are indeed prettier than I am and better dressed. And your clothes are more expensive. But you know what? When they hired me for this gig, they weren’t looking for America’s Next Top Model, nor were they judging me by the same criteria as “American Idol.” They hired me because I’m a damned fine scholar, I’ve done some groundbreaking work in my field, and the field is advancing because of the research that I am doing. I suppose it’s possible that you could find a professor who was: (a.) better looking (b.) more well-endowed (c.) wore better shoes (d.) had better hair (e.) didn’t say “um” (f.) didn’t hem and haw and (g.) certainly never rocked back and forth on her toes. But that’s not actually the point, is it? If you were actually benefitting from the outrageous tuition that mommy and daddy are paying, then you’d be saying things like “Oh, you’re taking Professor Jone’s course? Did you read her most recent article? I understand she had lunch last week with the Secretary of Energy.” You’d be choosing the professors based on their academic contributions to the field, the fact that they could supervise your thesis or use you as a research assistant and offer you co-authorship on a paper, or the likelihood that they know someone who could get you an interesting internship or job. What a shame that you’ll miss out on all that because you don’t like my hair. Who’s the loser in that scenario?
systeme_d - November 20, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Anon4now has posted a superb reply. It’s #25, for those of you keeping score.Thank you, Anon4now.
meb12 - November 20, 2009 at 11:28 pm
It is very interesting to see how much time and effort people are putting into dissecting the work of a student who has been brave enough to allow us access to her thoughts. This topic was not meant to spark a war between the students and the faculty, yet it seems that some people have their own agenda. As a work of creative writing, I think that this piece is a good read, and I see no reason as to why anyone should be defending themselves on the slight chance that they are the inspiration for some of these items. Constructive criticism is always nice, but rather than using this comment area as a platform for your own personal opinions, why not write an actual article yourself? Just a thought.
anon4now - November 21, 2009 at 8:27 am
@54 Thanks, système_d; I see there is now a Part 3…heading on over there…
goxewu - November 21, 2009 at 10:11 am
Re #52:1. The two essays that Prof. Barreca has posted ain’t “satire,” unless they’re satirizing the fluff assignments and proud-parent posturing that can pass for a “creative writing” class these days.2. There’s no lack of empathy in doubting that “grandma really did die.” It’s just that the odds against more than one student in the same semester, let alone the same class, having a grany shuffle off this mortal coil are pretty high. And weirdly, it’s usually the same student who has the misfortune to have a grandma die AND get a flat tire on the way to class AND to have his/her computer crash the day before a paper is due AND to have a roomie who spilled red wine on the homework AND…3. Most professors don’t feel that their single classes are the center of the universe. (Almost all of them teach more than one class.) It’s just that students commonly think that a normal workload (six hours a week, ladies and gentlemen, for any class which meets for three hours a week) which doesn’t fit comfortably into their total schedules is indicative of the professor thinking his/her class is “the center of the universe.” We’re not in high school in Kansas anymore.4. We’re not in Montessori School, either. This is ostensibly HIGHER education in which we’re all adults. My “holistic” regard for my students is limited to some fleeting casual conversation to loosen things up a bit, and to being aware that the wallflowers might need to be coaxed a little into class discussion, that the alphas who seem to go through life with their hands raised to be called on needing to be calmed down a little, etc. I have neither a degree nor expertise in counseling.5. A student’s coming to me late in the semester, after having missed a bunch of classes and tanked a bunch of tests and saying, “Could I have an incomplete, please?” is not a matter for my merciful-or-not temperament. The university has pretty precise rules for the granting of an incomplete, as opposed to getting a “withdrawl,” and as opposed to flunking the course. (Hardly any student I’ve ever had, by the way, has flunked a course because he or she simply blew it off with a smile. They ALL have one kind of story or another about why they tried and tried but just couldn’t help it.)6. I don’t “give” grades; students earn them. And the grades are based on what the student did in class, not on the student’s NEED for a certain grade to keep a scholarship, get into grad school, stay in school, stay on the good side of Mom ‘n’ Dad, etc.7. All this stuff about being “supportive” and treating students as “whole people” and having a “commitment to students” and no accepting each and every student excuse somehow making higher education “inaccessible” is eyewash. It’s code for student actions having no consequences and grade inflation.
gadget - November 21, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I teach at a college and university where my students are usually the first in their families to go to college (this semester I have only one student with a college-educated parent). They do not know that they are expected to work 2-3 hours for every hour in class; their experience is with high school or middle school and a GED. They overcommit themselves by signing up for four or five classes because both institutions are under pressure from the state for not graduating enough students in two or four years and our counselors are pressured to sign students up for full loads so our two and four and six year outcomes theoretically will improve. They don’t know that. All they know is that they need the full Pell grant to stay in school and need four or five classes to get the full grant.On my students’ part, most come from working class or low income homes and many are expected to contribute to family income. Most did not speak English as their first language and many struggle to understand their teachers. It is not uncommon for the women to be single parents of small children. Their homes are often very crowded–I have one student who lives in a two bedroom home with seven family members. Some live in trailers or tiny public housing apartments. Even many students who do not have children are often responsible for elder or child care when the babysitter doesn’t show up or the family member is ill. Yes, I have my liars and my goof offs, but I was once young and immature myself. I remember the professors who cut me some slack and blew off my failings as gifts that enabled me to mature and develop the ability to balance my school responsibilities with employment, social life, family issues, etc.I accept all excuses for missing an assignment with alacrity and simply assign a new drop dead due date. I lecture them privately when they have too many absenses and it works to improve their attendance. I remind them that I have a date beyond which I simply cannot grade another paper. I cut them slack: I was a “non-traditional” student and it took me three semesters to learn the ropes and to mature enough to balance all my obligations. Maybe I am lucky–well-off students from privileged backgrounds do not go to my institutions, I rarely have a snarky student, and I believe my students are imperfect human beings doing the best they can with the mental and financial resources they have. My job is to teach them, role model for them, and halp them learn and develop so they can reach their goals. Few go to college with the desire to fail. I know that most will develop the maturity they need as they go along, and that some are more advanced on that path than others. Their brains are still not fully developed and time and life alone will address that.Many writers have criticized the student author for starting out by telling us in item one how immature she and her fellow students are. Well, duh! Why would we expect differently from 18 and 19 year olds? Cut them some slack and get off your high horse. They know we work hard for them. They also know when we give too many assignments: where I teach, we are required to follow the current educational nostrum of giving many smaller assignments worth fewer points so none of the work is “high stakes.” Students bounce from assignment to assignment without the time to absorb and reflect. The assignments begin to feel meaningless, and indeed, some of them are. As for group work, it’s subject to complaint for all the reasons the writer mentioned. Unfortunately, out in the “real” world, the same things happen. We can build in mechanisms to address her issues, like encouraging collaborative internet work where we can check the process as well as the product, and by having students evaluate each other.
literarytype - November 21, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Gadget–thanks for offering a wise and compelling response instead of spewing cranky remarks. Your students are fortunate to have you in their lives.
goxewu - November 21, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Re #58:I simply say at the beginning of the class that all due dates are “drop dead due dates,” and act accordingly. If gadget indeed nows that “unfortunately, out in the ‘real world,’ the same things happen,” then gadget knows that out in the “real world” the due date that the boss assigns is a “drop dead due date.” Why set one’s students up to naively expect professorial forgiveness from bosses in the “real world”?Re #59:Cranky remarks are no more “spewed” than are therapeutic nostrums.
irprof - November 21, 2009 at 11:37 pm
The only issue I would like to comment on is that of my class not being your only class. You are required to have a copy of the course syllabus by the end of the first week of the semester. I email copies prior to the start of the semester. My syllabi provide due dates for assignments as well as dates of exams. Once you have received syllabi from all courses, it is YOUR responsibility to determine if the workload can fit into the remainder of your schedule. If it can not fit into your schedule, an adjustment will have to be made. Perhaps a course will need to be dropped. IF this is the case – please remember that YOU have to drop the course, not me. While sending me an email that you are droping the course is appreciated, the student is responsible for dropping a class. While this is also in all of my syllabi and reviewed on the first day of class, it always amazes me how many students just stop showing up, without consulting with me during office hours or via email,
willk - November 22, 2009 at 4:29 pm
brilliant
johntoradze - November 23, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I had the unusual experience of going to grad school 20 years after college. For the first year I was in classes with undergrads quite often, and in classes with grad students. This article was funny, but in different ways than most seem to think here. First – Students in the sciences at a major university don’t have the time to think about the weird mannerisms of professors. Oh, we noticed in passing, and rarely made some comment to each other; I famously got myself on the snark-list with an oversensitive professor dressed like he was from Hogwarts for an offhand remark, followed by accidentally knocking over a metal case in the middle of a lecture. But overall, students just didn’t have the time to bother. Any such thoughts were passing, and nobody really cared. What we did care about was whether or not professer Fardlekins made sense when he talked. We cared about whether professor Tweedle (and Tweedle’s TAs, some of whom were clueless) actually seemed to understand her material or was defensive and evasive with questions. Students (and I did hang out with the young’uns) really did appreciate those who would sit down at a picnic table, or right there in the hall and talk through something until it was understood. The greatest failing of students was to make that appreciation clear, which seemed to me mostly about not wanting to appear to be a suck-up than anything else. Second – I was an entrepreneur, a successful on; before that a successful engineering manager; before that an engineer prior to grad school. I ran operations across the globe, coordinating, teaching and motivating teams of all sorts in multiple languages from disparate cultures. And I can say with authority that the “group exercises” I was subjected to were the most awful non-learning experiences of my life. They were unrealistic for several reasons: A. There was nobody in charge in the group, and there is always a deliverable person on the hook in industry. B. There was nobody evaluating each person as things went along; the outrageous conduct of several students would have meant being fired. C. The relative contributions of students in the group was never tracked. It would have been simple to request the group or a group captain write in the assignment the percentage contribution of each member of the group, or at least what each contributed. Third, the workload thing is real, and getting more so. I think that the primary address to this MUST be made at the administrative level. Universities just have to adapt and allow students (particularly undergrads) to take fewer course units if they need to. I saw far too many students “Getting by” or not even that, because they had to take more courses than they could handle. The model today is based on the realities of yesteryear, a period in American History when students didn’t need to work, could take 15 tough units, and still have time to party. It ain’t that way anymore. I met undergrads who literally camped in vacant areas on campus in order to make ends meet, or lived in their cars, or a step up – rented a literal corner of a room. Things are different than they used to be and universities need to figure that out. The system can absorb half again as many enrolled students with 2/3 of them on a slow track to graduation in 6-8 years instead of 3-4. Fulltime studenthood is a luxury I think.
katiebeautifulkatie - November 23, 2009 at 6:20 pm
#63–Really interesting view of the whole business and one nobody else brought up, as far as I can tell. You’re right about the idea that increasing numbers of students are living hand to mouth despite the faculty’s idea that they are entitled brats. The range of responses is wild, but yours sounds like it comes from experience and makes sense! Thanks.
rgren - November 23, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Thank you, johntoradze (*63), for describing the horrid truth about the difference between what group work is in the workplace and group assignments passed off as “preparation for the workplace”. What the employer really wants when they say “they look for people who can work in teams” is someone who will deliver reliably and repeatably in the work group environment. The vast majority of group projects on campus don’t deliver this experience really, as the comments above note. They are far too often a way to divide the the total number of student assignments that need to be graded by 4 or 5 or 6 …
amaranthia - December 15, 2009 at 3:12 pm
1. We make lists of all your weird-ass mannerisms.5. Teach me without condemning me. …Has it ever occurred to the student who wrote this that the two observations above are mutually incompatible? Do you think your professors don’t notice how rude your are in regarding them with contempt? Many of my students have irritating mannerisms, too; many (in fact, most) are plain odd or spoilt or immature or silly or feel entitled to something they don’t really understand; they often have little empathy or ability to contextualise their relationships with their professors professionally or appropriately. I am often treated like a combination of therapist, mother, schoolmistress and nanny, when students should realise I am none of those things. Yet I am able to treat them professionally, and, in particular, to avoid making fun of them for this, or, indeed, “making a list of their weird-ass mannerisms.” I understand they are human and also that they are occasionally frustrated or hard-done-by or fallible. I have also learnt the hard way, I’m afraid, that to be too nice and understanding to my students too often only earns me not only a bigger workload but their contempt, not their respect. I used to expect that if I treated students as equals that they would do the same to me. Experience, I’m afraid, has taught me that instead they just make fun of me, take advantage of me, and then whine as well to top it off. Sorry, but this blog post is merely representative of the teenage student desire to have it both ways: “I want to be able to make fun of my professor but also expect that they will treat _me_ with respect”. Students: we are not your parents – it not our job to love you unconditionally. If you have transference issues with that, get over them in your own time.