Previous:
Next:

More on algebra

February 22, 2006, 12:03 pm

Spunky Jr. (high school-aged daughter of spunky) weighs in on the Richard Cohen article I blogged about here, and does so in a wise and convincing way.

Note to Mr. Cohen: When a teenager who has a self-admitted distaste for algebra writes more intelligently and coherently about the usefulness of algebra than a professional journalist, it’s time to start rethinking what you think you know about algebra.

This entry was posted in Education, High school, Math. Bookmark the permalink.

  • Print
  • Comment (21)
  • http://www.spunkyhomeschool.blogspot.com Spunky

    Both Spunky Jr. and I chuckled when we read
    your note to Mr. Cohen. Thanks for the link.

  • Pingback: Right Wing Nation » Indeed

  • marketnow

    I am sympathetic, to a degree, to students’ concerns over the economics of college. But let’s be clear here: if the average student leaves college with $25,000 in loan debt, as this article asserts, he or she will owe about $300 a month for ten years. And that’s assuming he or she is paying 8.25 percent interest, which almost nobody is paying right now.

    So, the student is paying less a month for his or her education than he or she would pay for a Chevy Cruze. Now, granted, the loan term is twice as long, but this hardly strikes me as an issue that should throw me into the depths of soul-searching angst.

    • Guest

      Good point. I think what you’re pinpointing is the continued value of the state colleges, which bring down the average cost of tuition. The problem is that many students who use federally backed student loans to attend private schools are graduating with a lot more than $25,000 in debt. So there’s the problem we have to solve. Personally I think a good first step would be to stop backing student loans for people who attend colleges that charge exorbitant tuition.

    • jupiterjazz

      What if the student doesn’t graduate? The majority of students don’t graduate. So then you’ve just saddled that person with $25000 in debt and 4 years out of the workplace. And as a bonus that debt will never be be dismissible in bankruptcy.

      What if that person has a family? What if that person has child support payments? I don’t see educators asking themselves the tough questions like these.

      I assumed that the whole notion of “public education” was that these institutions would be in service of the public. But it’s clear they are not. They are there for the benefit of those on the government dole and they will do anything it takes and and turn a blind eye to any tragedy necessary to avoid making even the slightest change.

    • bonpot

      “the student is paying less a month for his or her education than he or she would pay for a Chevy Cruze”…over TEN years – and the 25K assumes they graduate in 4 years, which most don’t.

      And, really? The $25K is just the loan portion. Did you forget the other $100K that the degree cost? What a lame argument. The reality is its more like the cost of three, loaded Audi A4s.

    • katejackson

      Between a car and a college degree, probably the degree is more useful, but a car  can get you to a lot of jobs where you can save money before school. Either way, $300 is actually quite a lot of money if you’re unemployed or underemployed. For me personally, I went to public school so  public loans did not cover room and board, so I took some private loans out thinking paying attention to school (graduating cum laude) > going through school very slowly while working and saving less money. I am very proud of my degree, but I am at or below the poverty line, and those loan payments keep coming. The only solution is to take classes in community college to save my credit and have money to spend on basic necessities like food and rent, and maybe eventually a vehicle. Now that I have a job in the field finally (minimum wage internship), hopefully this will change eventually, but I would say the $300 a month should be enough to scare students into reconsidering not just doing community college very slowly while working.

      • burger1376

        You might benefit from looking for work abroad.  I have been working in China for 7 years and have no bad influence from the economic crisis. 

  • socafish

    “mounting anger by college graduates who blame their alma maters for the fact they can’t find a job in this bad economy.”

    I participated, where is my trophy?

  • atana09

    “The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a “two-tier labor market” in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.”  CIA world factbook 2011
       The middle class has been losing economic status for considerably longer than just the current lost decade although the last few years have sped this condition to a crises point. And as Dr. Warren and others have noted the uneasy status of the middle class over the last generation has been held by debt rather than appropriate increases in real income.
        As M. Selingo and other researchers indicate one element which has allowed a certain portion of the middle class some stability, has been then value of the college education.
      However the advantages gained by collegiate education are rapidly receding, this is obviously due to the decline in real income combined with the incredible rise in tuition & debt. Essentially what we have done with the increases in tuition is to collapse the ability of a college degree to be a stable element towards creating middle class stability. The 50% increases in college costs since 1990 (of which some 50%+ is paid for by loans)* has combined with the generational losses in real middle class income producing a situation where a college degree is becoming a losing situation and a fools game. (*CEPR Boushey)
    And when the laws regarding student debt are considered, especially since these draconian debt laws are perhaps the penultimate example of crony capitalism it is not surprising there is a very angry generation out there, and one of the predominate causes of this anger is education, its tolls, and the fact that those years of study may not do any good.
      The genuine tragedy of it all is that this toxic mess need not have happened. If the US had developed a model of direct educational support for both students and academe rather than funneling billions through various lenders both the middle class and academe would not be on the brink. But since we allowed this shell game to occur, and now have a trillion plus dollars in student debt, a middle class on the brink, and academe improperly supported despite all the debt-it may be time for serious reforms.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mulenda-Nyembo/100002286220638 Mulenda Nyembo

    i like this.

  • computerpulse

    I’d like to know where you can get a college education and 4 year degree for $25,000

    • dale1

      Missouri State University’s tuition for in-state students is around $6600/year.  See http://www.missouristate.edu/costs/.  This doesn’t include room/board or books, but it’s just a bit above your $25k cap.

    • burger1376

      Beijing, China.  Learn some Chinese and find a job in one of the fastest growing nations in the world.  Besides, the chinese government wants young foreigners in their undergrad programs so much that many Americans even get full scholarships and stipends. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=183403518 Anita Garner

    “The University of the South cut its
    price by 10 percent this year. Will others follow?” 

    • dale1

      I doubt it, Anita.  Particularly at public institutions, state funding is flat or worse, so tuition discounting will stay at the same or slightly lower rate, I would expect.

      • katejackson

        Tuition has increased for all the California public schools, and the UCS have tripled in 10 years. Personally while I was at San Diego State, tuition rose from around $1300 a semester to $1800. Unfortunately tuition is less of an issue as living expenses in California.

  • EasyReader

    Are colleges and universities preparing students for careers that no longer exist?  Are the courses obsolete?  Not everyone is destined to be an engineer or a nurse – two career choices that still offer opportunities.  Even teaching is no longer a safe choice, with school districts chopping budgets to the bone.  What are students supposed to do?  Go into decades-long debt for a degree that turns out to be worthless in the marketplace?  Answers, please. 

  • http://twitter.com/MauiRafi Dr. Rafael Boritzer

    So what’s a four year college degree worth? Less time on the unemployment line!

  • bonpot

    I have two kids in college and I’m a firm believer in higher education the lifelong benefits of a college degree. Absolutely. However, after “shopping” around for schools, I’m stunned by the over-built, extravagant campus buildings, grounds and facilities that I saw at almost every school…and we went to many, many schools. With graduation rates falling every year (why in the US?), kids coming out in a depressed economy where paying their loan will be much tougher, how is it that schools feel they can continue raising rates on kids and parents?….and, then many turn around and build monstrous, over-the-top facilities. This is like CEOs giving themselves huge raises while their company and investors slide into the abyss. If you don’t do the job well, you shouldn’t get a raise…and then remodel your mansion. I think soul-searching is totally in order. Come on, we can do better. I’d make a plan before the market makes it for you.

  • burger1376

    I would have to say that a university degree is more important now than it has ever been in the history of humanity.  First of all, the jobs of the future are most likely not in the United States.  I am working in a Japanese advertising company located in Beijing, China.  I got the job because I was fluent in Chinese and had a degree in history as well as a graduate degree in Chinese studies.  Other students should look abroad to start their careers.  I plan to use my experience here to later find a job in the United States.  Second, students need to pay attention to what they study.  Even though I got a degree in history and Chinese studies, it was my skills in mandarin that actually got me the job.  Many companies do not need “liberal arts majors.”  They want skills.  Most jobs are for those educated in computer science, chemestry, math, engineering, etc.  Even here in China, they want native speakers of english who are educated in these areas.  If you are getting a degree in art history, although beneficial to society and humaity, it is not beneficial to your future career.  If you can pay for your degree on your own, get a degree in whatever you want.  If you are taking out loans, you need to get a degree that will help you pay off those loans.  Anyone who tells you anything different is just giving you bad advice. At the moment, I am one of few who is paying off my loans, and that is because i branched away from what i really wanted to study, which was philosophy. 

    Others might disagree with me, but reality is reality and idealism always works in movies.  After some work experience, I might later apply to PhD programs in history.  A more realistic approach to studying what i want instead of just jumping into that much debt right away.   

  • The Chronicle of Higher Education
  • 1255 Twenty-Third St, N.W.
  • Washington, D.C. 20037