Providing an educational benefit to Wal-Mart employees could help Wal-Mart with recruiting a younger generation of employees who might start to see working at Wal-Mart as an alternative means of getting their degree. Wal-Mart will have to assure the quality of the degree is high if they want to deliver real educational value to the employees. Credit for experience may be widely accepted but I like the idea of credit by exam better, if you have the experience and knowledge it seems like you should be able to pass an exam. The quality of experience can vary greatly, but with an exam you at least prove that the student has the requisite knowledge. Good luck with this new project, Wal-Mart.

Bernard Schuster
Arrive2.net

I wonder what kind of exam the company would choose--tongue in cheek about the toothpaste.

This one statement in the article really struck me, "Wal-Mart estimates that about 700,000 of its 1.4 million American employees lack a college degree." So, the flip-side of that is that the other 700,000 American Walmart employees DO have college degrees? And they are working at Walmart -- presumably for low-wages & no benefits -- ouch! Now there is a story -- a sad story -- sigh.

I really like "the great masses" of a population getting new higher education options, even when purity and elite-ness are attenuated somewhat. So more power to both parties to this transaction. If it turns out this arrangement is not perfect---surprise surprise---then may we all help both parties do better rather than belittling them or dumping contempt on them.

It is a generous gift from WalMart BUT:

In the good old days students actually earned a degree
1. you put your life on hold
2. you sat in a classroom and listened to lectures from learned intellectuals
3. you purchased and read books
4. you wrote term papers with FOOTNOTES
5. you went to the library to get information
6. you studied until the early hours of the morning
7. you held a part time job
8. you did NOT get married and have babies before you finished your education
9. you did not buy high priced electronic equipment and
10. equally important you developed social skills through intelectual debate and plain old fashion fun.

#1- the idea of testing is sound, as long as it is done in a universal way that values more than a paper and pencil exam. Many are better able to express what they know in alternate ways.

#5 in the good old days kids could run free through their neighborhood without fearing they'd be kidnapped or killed and parents knew their neighbors had the best interest of all the neighborhood kids in mind . . . and in the good old days conditions in schools that caused disabling environments for students who learn differently didn't really matter. . . the times they are a changin' in the classroom and outside of the classroom.

#4 AMEN

Your_Rights,

You forgot the part about walking three miles through knee deep snow, uphill...both ways.

I received 70+ credits via an "assessment of prior learning" class (APL) at a community college. I had to prepare a portfolio for every course for which I hoped to receive credit. I had to meet w/ the faculty member who taught the class and, in some instances, was asked to take the final exam for the course. As a result, I was able to transfer to a 4-year state college with two years of credits under my belt. Had I not be able to do that, it's unlikely I would have gone forward to get two AAs, a BA, and MBA, an MS and a PhD. I'm all for APL if it's as rigorous as mine was.

There are large variations among for-profits and among on-line coursework, but the life credit here does sound sketchy. One of the things I was curious about was the accreditation. When you go to the website, it is very vague. It says the system is approved (by North Central, surprise, surprise), but nothing about the specific schools. The scruitiny will increase with the level of publicity, which is a good thing.

Not only is the cost for the degree they will get questionable, but what real use will it be to those who live in areas where,to start with,there is limited opportunity?

I didn't dig to see if this is a public corporation, but you can be sure that, if it is, Wal-Mart will be a major stockholder before too long.

and Wal-Mart continues its march...

Why don't they just sell the diploma and be done with it?

Landrum Kelly
Salisbury, NC

3224243- Were all your degrees earned online?

It is surprising that Wal-Mart would turn to a for-profit educational institution like APU. In my 20 years at traditional non-profit colleges & universities I have seen many such university-corporate partnerships; however, In numerous cases, I have observed the bureaucracy of public institutions often impeding the ability to make timely decisions and adopt innovative programs that could last after the initial grant cycle ended. Credit for prior learning is not new and is utilized by over half of all colleges and universities. Many universities have agreements to offer college credit for corporate training programs or via credits evaluated by the American Council on Education. In our current economic crisis, many community colleges do not have the infrastructure to handle the current wave of enrollment, let alone partner with a huge provider like Wal Mart. Until "affordable" institutions come to the plate with discounts and similar services, I hope that this initiative succeeds wildly. No, I do not work for either Wal Mart or the American Public University System.

Personally, I think the last place Wal-Mart should enter is the field of higher education. Wal-Mart has a horrendous track record with workers' rights and access to health insurance. Additionally, Wal-Mart's viral capacities negatively impact communities' businesses and wages. I could easily see this program being used as a bait and switch for many employees.

I would have had much more respect for this program, and ultimately the degrees of the people enrolled in this program, had Wal-Mart chosen to abide by the rules and cost set out by UM's online division. But instead, they find a "vendor" willing to work with their demands. Based on what other posters have said, I find it very difficult to believe that this degree will have any value outside of Wal-Mart.

To our colleague "your_rights":
Today, students actually earn degrees, even though they balance family and employment and other activities with their studies, just like thousands of students did in your "good old days".

This is a solid, real world example of higher education innovation. So far, it looks like a win/win.

As #13 pointed out, public universities, with their high levels of taxpayer support, could be players in these kinds of partnership were it not for their sluggish governance-driven decision processes that make faculties the primary customer. http://www.intered.com/higheredbriefing/2010/6/13/barriers-to-innovation-part-i-culture-leadership-management.html

While I don't see a public university quite ready for this kind of innovation, many community colleges and independent universities are ready. Go for it and ignore the professorial naysayers who dominate this venue, half of whom long for good old days that never were, have not taken the time to notice that half of today's college student are adults, and wave their academic quality shibboleth, flaccid from the evidential vacuum.

The market share of our public universities is not being stolen, it is being given away by refusing to recognize and adapt to the changing needs of our society. They have only themselves to blame.

You need to understand that UMUC competes tooth and nail with AMU/APU and Dr. Aldridge's comments were at best, ahem, self-serving.

The vast majority of open access institutions including community colleges and UMUC (http://www.umuc.edu/prog/ugp/prior/prior.shtml) are in the practice of granting credit for prior life experience to older students. To suggest that the Wal-Mart experience would not meet its standards or that AMU's process for evaluating credits is less rigorous than its own is plain snobbism. The simple truth is that UMUC lost what was more than likely its to lose for reasons of inflexibility and misplaced vanity.

The testimony of corporate executives to the Spellings Commission revealed the overwhelming frustration felt by Fortune 500 companies at the lack of preparedness of college graduates for the workforce. This kind of partnership where companies take matters into their own hands is certainly the future.

First impression is that this sounds like more of the same old corporate HR window dressing. WM wants to be able to tell employees that they are providing something extra that Target and Costco aren't providing to their employees... never mind that no one but WalMart will place any value on the APU "degree."

Second thought is that this will drive down the value of a college degree (especially all online, for profit degrees) just like WM drove down the value of everything else they sell. They have the leverage to demand that a vendor reduce price, modify the product, etc. and the end result is lower prices to retail... and therefore a reduced value of the product.

Finally, I have no problem at all with WM and APU doing this. This is free market activity. The poor folks who shell out $24K for a WM special degree are the ones getting ripped off. No one but WM is going to honor that degree. APU and WM get their photo op and their "feel good" material and the WM employee is still stuck working for the machine and making a pitiful wage and can't leverage all those hours and dollars to get a better job.

Excuse me, but the whole idea is revolting. Academic credit for working in a Wal-Mart store? Worthless!

A degree should be awarded for academic work done under an institution's program. Any degree that awards credit for working in a job is basically not worth the paper it's printed on. With that as a standard, practically every employed person doing any job could justify demanding a degree.

Let's just say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The fact that someone graduates from "Wal-Mart University" is a lifetime stigma. I can't see these graduates being accepted into the community of scholars or taken seriously outside of the friendly confines of Wal_Mart University.

My biggest issue is that most of the regional accrediting bodies allow no more than 25% of a degree to be earned through prior learning credit (and I do agree that 25% is about the right percentage). This means that the degrees will likely not transfer. Additionally, I'd like to see what sort of firewalls are put in place to protect the academic decision process from the corporate one. This isn't intransigence or inflexibility, but rather making sure that the internal politics of who should and shouldn't get promoted don't affect the academic decision of who should and shouldn't get a degree.

As for all of the arguments against experiential learning, what do you call an internship? What about credit for lab work? While skills involved in being a checker would be questionable for applicability towards a liberal arts degree, I can see how managerial experience might apply. Not as much as what they're saying it should, but I can see how it might apply.

Ultimately though, this deal highlights the dangers in the for-profit educational system when academic decisions about what is worth credit turn into negotiating points.

@sahara,

Presuming that you are an academic/scholar, you might wish to bring those standards into your personal life. You could begin by acquainting yourself with the American Council On Education CCRS Division. Then, you might review CAEL standards and related theoretical papers and empirical research. You would, no doubt, fail your students for demonstrating the ignorance and irrationality you display.

WM sets the curriculum and links it to employee performance reviews, and thus to job security. Are we talking about education or brainwashing? How about a BP university degree in environmental ethics? Or Blackwater College degree in political science and international relations?

I'm skeptical given my experience of Walmart's name brand products, where their version of everything from china to windshield wipers has been of lesser quality than the supposedly identical items I found elsewhere. It indeed would be more difficult for Walmart to deal with junior colleges throughout the U.S. rather than one on line provider, but lots of other businesses are able to do this.

Reading these comments I get the feeling that just about any course of action WalMart takes would be met by scorn by many of the readers of the Chronicle. Disappointing.

With the rising cost of higher ed, and the remarkably poor skills of our graduates, even from high-tier schools like the one where I teach, it's crazy to say that the present system provides a good value. I doubt APU provides a great education, but I wonder just how much worse it is than the standard BA/BS that students with a 2.5-3.5GPA get from Big State U? Rather than exalting the traditional, we should working harder on a 21st century educational model that is more affordable and produces better outcomes. The current system is not sustainable.

Burger King University is next.

If they were to test the wal-students then I would feel better about them getting college credit, but we all know they wont and that 'degree' is going to be useless, as most of the Wal-cashiers can't count change, smile or get me through a line in less than 40 minutes.

Teaching where they have an open admission policy I constantly encounter students that can't write, can't do basic math and really should be back in high school not in a college setting.

I agree that our current system isn't exactly working the way it should. But is stocking shelves the same as learning?

Big Box Store education?

I always knew that an online degree was nothing more than a commodity item.

@Signaledu

When I reread her comments, I fail to see how they are self-serving:

Unlike American Public, Maryland's University College would not put a deep discount on the table.

Credit for Wal-Mart work was also an issue, Ms. Aldridge said.

"We feel very strongly that any university academic credit that's given for training needs to be training or experience at the university level," Ms. Aldridge said. "And we have some very set standards in that regard. And I'm not certain that we would have been able to offer a significant amount of university credit for some of the on-the-job training that was provided there."

In regards to the first part of her commentary, it does seem that Wal-Mart's decision to go with APU was, at least in part, finacially determined. Wal-Mart probably tried the same tactics they use on any number of suppliers, in which they say I will buy 100,000 units but we only want to pay x per unit. Usually x will equal a marginal profit over cost, but the volume helps the supplier, too.

Wal-Mart's strength in purchasing has always been in volume. And it seems that this latest move is no exception. I wonder if Wal-Mart entered into this deal by pointing to their 700,000 employees without degrees as potential candidates?

That guy in the picture just earned three credits for 'shopping cart pulling.'

I wonder how the WalMart workers, at $12/hour, will pay their tuition...ahh....federal student loans...going into the for profit university's system, likley with WalMart owning some stock in the University....this degree will have little value outside WalMart....I see many Walmart employees tied to Walmart for life as after this degree that is useless outside Walmart, they'll have more debt, from tuition loans....and even if they can't pay the debt, it will not be forgivable....you can not expel student loan debt in bankruptcy...stays with your forever....ruins your credit score forever....if you check what the Directors on these for-profits make; check SEC 10-K reports, you'll see it's typicaly in the millions.....think about that....I'm not sure even the elite private university President's make salaries over $ 1 million, but those whom are Directors (Board) for these private universities sure do....I suggest WalMart students attend the local community college and transfer to a State University....a much better and more useful/transferable degree.

vampyjess:

"And I'm not certain that we would have been able to offer a significant amount of university credit for some of the on-the-job training that was provided there."

Dr. Alridge's statement does not say that she would not have granted credits or that the credits are being improperly awarded, she merely implies this is the case.

As for pricing, the article fails to note that UMUC's prices are identical to APU's. So in this instance at least, APU is offering the greater service to students.

As the apparent runner up, I detect a strong aroma of sour grapes here.

jesor: APU IS regionally accredited so there is no reason to believe that APU would award credits any more aggressively than any other institution.

I actually earned a M.A. degree (in American History) from APU. I chose it because it was, at the time, the only online graduate school available in the humanities. I had professors from several "big name" universities and I studied from the same texts that students at brick and mortar schools studied from. When it came time to write my thesis, I had an advisor who was both retired military and a professor. I have absolutely no complaints about my education and it is far from worthless, as one commenter said.

With that being said, this partnership with Wal-mart is very concerning. Why should Wal-mart employees get credit for "life experience" when I did not, why should I have to pay the full rate on my student loan when Wal-mart employees receive a discount, and why on EARTH would an online institution, that is struggling for legitimacy in an era when online education is still not accepted as the "real thing", partner with a discount retailer??

Bradwick, Walmart has an excellent benefits program for its full-time employees, including a profit-sharing plan for retirement that is quite spectacular. The company also has a policy of promoting from within, giving true career paths to those who succeed.

Walmart does make use of a large number of part-time workers, and it is they, like part-timers in every organization including universities, who lack benefits.

The real issue is that organized labor cannot stand the idea that more than one million employees someplace are not paying dues to a union. That is the issue in Chicago, where the Mayor is so beholding to union campaign funds that he will not allow Walmart to build within the city limits. The impact of that: thousands of jobs and millions in sales tax and property tax revenues go to the suburbs instead. But that is all hidden under arguments about "low wages and no benefits". As though nothing per hour and nothing forever is a better deal for the taxpayers, the unemployed, and the consumers of Chicago.

# 26
Back in the 70's I worked for Burger King. There was a Burger King U. Managers recieved a certificate after Burger King management training.

There was also a Clown College (not sure if that was affiliated with BK or McD's). But that was to learn about clowning or becoming a mascot.

P.S. I did not get any college credit for working at Burger King. But there are times that internships and coop experiences can be just as valuable as listenting to some of the professors I have heard about.

Diploma mill and will degrade legitimate degrees. Also, how much stock does Wal-Mart have in APU? They may discount employees but then make it up in the end.

The problem with the whole thing is that there is no college education here. Only a degree being awarded. There has been an inversion of ends and means, as states, and employers, and people in general, seek to have "more college degree holders" in our society. But what are the standards to get the degree. In the case of APL, I suspect basically none. Local private schools in my area just sell degrees. Then the online private schools, their standards are nonexistent. They are all about retaining students and making money.

I think everyone is missing a very big point. Walmart is serving as an institution of higher learning for a least a part of these students program. What are the degree credential of the Walmart faculty and when will the accrediting body visit Walmart for a focus visit?

Walmart is just trying to keep more of their employees' earnings.

To #12: none of my degrees were done on-line. I attended the community college, the 4-year institution and a nationally ranked PhD program, in person.

Credits from WalU will not transfer so that you are basically stuck with a worthless degree (unless it can be used for internal promotion within the company-if that is the goal). I agree with the previous poster who said they might as well sell the degree and be done with it...heck, they can even roll-back the prices!

I think this dialogue is a great example of the diversity in higher education. We provide examples of the ignorant experts and the practicle profit driven members of the academe. There does not need to be agreement or consensus. As with the Wal Mart employees, we each get to choose how to spend our money and what we believe.

Mid degree transfer credit MAY be a problem; it is now and has been a currency-swap with 'vigorish" headache at traditional AND non-traditional schools. The bite (modita) they take is sometimes controlled, so that a MINIMUM amount of credit must be taken at your new "alma mater" to get this or that degree.
On the job front, "Termination" degrees (are there any in the new lifelong learning model?), however, are a different story because employers have boxes to check -- "been by college" AA, BA, MA, Phd, Other? And from there on in, the job mart does the ranking ... or not.
On the "gotta go back to schoolin'" side, it's much the same - a degree is usually credited no matter where it comes from as a degree, which lets you out of a whole bunch of gen ed courses, and then comes down to whether you've got ON PAPER the courses that are prerequisites for the courses they propose you take for the NEXT degree. If you do, you sink or swim in the first next delivery. If you don't, no matter because we have a handy-dandy sooper fast make up course, and 'you can take it" because "you're an adult, fast-paced, eager scholar."
Don't run with scissors in the hallways.
All of this is sometimes mostly true.
Hint: The HR dept. scans the boxes. After that, it's like playing shortstop: can you move both to your right and left on the job? Performance based acdording to someone else's vision of the thing? Very!

Yes, probably the other Walmart employees do have a college degree. They do offer benefits and they do offer upward mobility. Boy is your elitism showing big time! And, if you don't think it's difficult to be a single parent "earning" a degree while continuing to work full-time you are out of touch completely. It is extremely difficult but very fulfilling to (1) identify the fact that you made a huge mistake by not getting an education first and (2)know that you are teaching your child that education matters so much that you are willing to go back to school as an adult learner to provide a better life for yourself and your child. Good heavens people, take a look around. The country has changed and Walmart is changing with it.

Many who are coming out of our colleges and universities might just as well have gotten their degree online. They can't write, they can't put together a cohesive thought ... and it is not Walmart U - read the article again.

This may not be the greatest idea in the long-term but we need to wait and see.

0382: no, the country has changed, and Walmart (unfortunately) HAS changed it. Unfortunately because the ONLY positive thing most people seem to be able to say about the company is that it extols CHEAP,but look who and what it crushes to bring the world cheap junk! Vote with your pocketbook and stop buying cheap junk!

Regarding "It is a generous gift from WalMart BUT:

In the good old days students actually earned a degree
1. you put your life on hold
2. you sat in a classroom and listened to lectures from learned intellectuals
3. you purchased and read books
4. you wrote term papers with FOOTNOTES
5. you went to the library to get information
6. you studied until the early hours of the morning
7. you held a part time job
8. you did NOT get married and have babies before you finished your education
9. you did not buy high priced electronic equipment and
10. equally important you developed social skills through inte[l]lectual debate and plain old fashion fun."

Yes, the only part I am missing is the part-time job and I'm in my 50's!! It IS an investment, though, and I am grateful for the government student loan program! I know it will be worth it when I'm finally done with the schooling part.

@sarah,

There seems to be no bounds to your ready/fire/aim judgments. A GE Toaster that costs $32 at a Mall Department store will cost $25 at Walmart. Depending on where you live, it may or may not make sense to buy the Walmart toaster. Most of what Walmart sells is branded merchandise (appliances, electronics, etc. ). If it is "cheap" at Walmart, it is "cheap" at the expensive store at which you presumably shop. Branded merchandise vitiates your claim. As for the impact of the Big Box stores on the economy, economists hold differing positions and valid points can be made on all sides.

It would be easy to say, "Consider the source" when I read the many childish comments here but I also see real insight in many other comments. One could sum them up by saying that this partnership got created because there was a need that most institutions of higher education did not and would not know how to meet. This story is told many times over as institutions die off and are replaced by adaptive institutions. The most irreducible definition of intelligence is adaptability, a definition that sheds a different light on much university life, does it not?

Actually, big box stores often sell cheaper versions of branded items. For example, when I was having kitchen remodeling done the designer apologized for specifying a certain model brand name faucet and instead specified another--which looked identical to me despite the different names of the two. She told me that what she mistakenly had specified was the version of the faucet sold at one of the big box home centers and that the seemingly-identical faucet she had changed to had sturdier internal works and would last much longer. The big box version had been built to sell at a lower price.

This is not to say that such is always the case, but caveat emptor.

Creditable on-line education demands the very personal involvement of well-prepared instructors chosen for their academic preparation, active in the design and conduct of the courses, and PAID for their work. It also demands evaluation and monitoring of results. Will Wal-Mart/ APL be able to provide those elements? And will the "life-experience" credits be monitored? Or can I simply cozy up to my supervisor, get a good rating for the work (maybe in exchange for an agreement not to complain about unreasonable hours, etc) and get the credit. This sounds like a lot of the unpaid, for-credit professional internships many colleges enter into with industry, only to have their interns, who are supposed to be learning something in the internship, make coffee, run errands, and do the scut work nobody on the paid staff wants to do.

Let's get real - is it education, or is it a sham?

It is a generous gift from WalMart BUT:

In the good old days students actually earned a degree
1. you put your life on hold
2. you sat in a classroom and listened to lectures from learned intellectuals
3. you purchased and read books
4. you wrote term papers with FOOTNOTES
5. you went to the library to get information
6. you studied until youth nfl jerseys the early hours of the morning
7. you held a part time job
8. you did NOT get married and have babies before you finished your education
9. you did not buy high priced electronic equipment and
10. equally important you developed social skills through intelectual debate and plain old fashion fun

fullprof99: either that, or you just got charged a higher price for an identical item, with all the profit going to your "designer".

The greatest bargain in higher education is through public community colleges. If WalMart really wanted to give their employees a leg up on getting a solid degree with transfer credits, they would work with the local community colleges for courses on site, courses at convenient times, courses for which WM would pay the tuition. (The next great bargain is finishing the BA or BS degree at a public university like mine.)

(makes that closed-teeth, hissing noise) Oh boy, I dunno about this one ...

One the one hand:

- It is good, in a large sense, that Wal-Mart is at least trying to offer some kind of plan for getting a higher education to such a large swath of its workforce, folks who might not otherwise even be exposed to the idea. Introducing the notion into their lives cannot but start them thinking that maybe they can progress and advance intellectually and as citizens/humans to a better place than they're at currently.

- It would probably be easier to swallow a 10-foot length of rope than get all these Wal-mart employees enrolled in community colleges and public universities. I've worked for both, and come on people, all this talk about "community colleges would be such a better fit, such a better bargain," are you kidding me? If you up the enrollment at most C.C.s by 10% from one semester to the next, it's like the fall of Rome. CCs and public colleges, with rare exceptions, are overworked and underfunded, and could not possibly handle such an influx of students, especially ones probably needing extra help and guidance, since I'd imagine a great many of these Wal-mart employees would be underrepresented and/or first generation college students. The bureaucracy and plodding of most schools would drive them away. Why do you really think places like Kaplan and U. of Phoenix are so attractive? Many folks want convenience and ease of use that most colleges rarely provide. Therefore, a partnership with APU makes sense, again assuming a few things about Wal-mart's employee demographic (adult learners, working, probably lower-income and underrepresented/first generation)

But, on the other hand:

- College credit for working at the store. Come on. Seriously. No.

- I don't know what the point of this whole thing is, if not to 1) prepare people for the management track at Wal-mart, or 2) to provide an esoteric, kind of "feel-good" benefit to the employees, without giving them a degree that really will be of great use elsewhere in the world. I seriously doubt that the retail diploma from APU will hold much water at any other school, or in any other workplace.

- $11,700 for an Associate's degree is insane. At the CC where I used to work, even including remedial/"catch-up" courses for a full year (2 semesters), plus the 2 years for an AS/AA, it wouldn't have cost more than about $5000 for the whole degree, books and everything included, which is well within the max. Pell Grant limits, for which most if not all of our students qualified due to low income. $24K for a Bachelor's is more reasonable, but again, why not just go to CC for 2 years, transfer to a state school, and after another 2 years get your Bachelor's?

- Wal-mart doesn't have to offer its own "preferred" school in order to make this work, they can provide subsidies or tuition credits/help to students through grants, etc. This whole idea is convoluted and in a sense, unnecessary. Give qualified employees scholarships or grants, and let them choose their own schools.

$11,700 seems reasonable considering there are no net taxpayer costs. The $5,000 community college tab doesn't include another $12,000 or so in hidden taxpayer support. If the associate's is underwritten by Pell, net taxpayer costs rise to $17,000 plus the governmental overhead (which is pretty high).

Community colleges are the best bargain for the student and are often the best product, almost always a better product than comparable courses at BigStateU. For the taxpayer, Community Colleges are the second best buy, behind the for-profits. These generalizations include analyses of default costs by institutional type.

I wonder why WalMart did not go with an online community college program here in the state of Arkansas. For example, Arkansas State University at Newport offers an online AA degree for a lot less money than what APU is charging. Perhaps, WalMart is assuming that financial aid will pay APU for much of their program?

As with most articles from The Chronicle of Higher Education, this one summarized a very complex issue quite well. But, a few sentences did cause us at CAEL alarm. And, based on the above comments, we are not the only ones. The article claims that APU will "count significant amounts of Wal-Mart job training and experience as academic credit torward its degrees." Since the signed contract is not quoted in this article, we are not sure if that is the actual arrangement between APU and Wal-Mart, of, if the arrangement has been inaccurately described.

At CAEL, we fully support the review of job-related and other extra-curricular learning experiences to determine if they are worth college-level credits, but the review must be based on the learning acquired through an experience, and not just for having the experience in and of itself. The article conflated these two issues -- a common misconception that Prior Learning Assessment crtics have of PLA in general.

CAEL has stated in multiple PLA-related research studies and publications over the past 37 years that any credit awarded through PLA must be based on the demonstrated mastery of learning, and not just for having endured that experience, regardless of the level of one's performance on a job.

Hundreds of institutions offer rigorous, high-quality PLA programs for their students -- programs that award credit based on demonstrated learning, programs that include the opportunity for students to think reflectively and critically on their learning, programs that follow the CAEL Standards for Assessing Learning, and programs that are openly reviewed and accredited by regional accrediting bodies.

Again, we at CAEL agree with many of the issues raised by those posting comments here -- we absolutely do not support the awarding of credit for experience. Instead, we endorse PLA when used to award credit for learning. In re-reading the article, however, it is unclear to us if the confusion in this matter comes from a Wal-Mart representative not understanding the nuances of alternative postsecondary education methods and what constitutes a quality approach to PLA, or if it comes from an inaccurate summary of the interviews. We hope that Wal-Mart and/or APU will clarify this issue for the higher education community. We believe that if the issue is clarified and if there is indeed going to be a thorough review of the learning of employees and not just their job performance, then the process would meet our standards for PLA. If not, we could not support the process and in fact would be concerned that it would undermine the confidence of higher education institutions in PLA.

Pamela Tate, President and CEO, CAEL
Posted by Cathy Brigham, PhD, CAEL, Higher Education Services, on behalf of Pam Tate

#34, the comment that "the real issue is that organized labor cannot stand the idea that more than one million employees someplace are not paying dues to a union" is snide, and sounds like something a corporate stuffed-shirt would say in a closed-door meeting, or a prepared remark that a politician beholden to business donors would make at a sponsored, $1500 a plate campaign dinner.

I don't know if you are from Chicago, but I am, and I absolutely agree that Daley is a pandering, crazy, corrupt moron who cares about who is lining his pockets, and nothing more. However, for the workers of the city, it absolutely is about "low wages and no benefits," which is exactly what Wal-mart (and yes, many universities) offer. Saying that "some job is better than no job" is, to me, un-American and elitist, and can only come from someone who has a patrician, privileged background, and has never had to worry about income, health insurance, or retirement planning. If it's an OK deal to work for $12 an hour with no security and no benefits, then why don't you try it? Right, I didn't think so. Such an arrangement produces misfortune and poverty, not opportunity!

I can only speak of organized labor from my own prior experience as a former member and officer with the AFT, but at my previous institution, union dues were something like $4 from every member's paycheck, and went toward funding the numerous programs and services for professional development we offered, as well as battling with an intransigent and cruel administration to maintain some semblance of fair working conditions, despite their obsession with firing staff for dubious reasons, retracting longtime benefits, and generally creating an environment of mistrust and fear. We represented the interests of middle-class people who worked hard every day, and didn't deserve to be squeezed out of their jobs because administrators made poor economic decisions, or because they were more concerned with padding their own ranks than providing student services or equitable treatment of their employees.

Again, someone who reflexively bad mouths the alleged greed and corruption of unions probably is from the class of folks who get rich at the expense of the people at "the bottom."

What student services are provided?

Will Wal-Marts add a ground Wal-Mart-student-only student services center or student learning assistance center at store locations to provide student services, technology center, library, tutoring, discussion groups, child day and night care since stores are open 24-hours?

Will services be provided online only, personnel hired for ground locations?

Not all Wal-Marts are located near a postsecondary institution/academic library.

What assessment instruments or process for identifying up front the reading, writing, math, science, thinking and learning levels of enrolling Wal-Mart students will be used? Will basic/practice courses be provided? If not a learning center with live persons to assist students as a ground room at existing Wal-Marts, how will the students receive timely assistance?

I simply cozy up to my supervisor, get a good rating for the work (maybe in exchange for an agreement not to complain about unreasonable hours, etc) and get the credit. This sounds like a lot of the unpaid, for-credit professional
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I tell my students at BigStateU that their university brand is in direct competition with Phoenix, Kaplan, and other online schools. Having worked in both environments, I can testify that the standards are different - ForProfitU tries to get its students through each course as paying customers, and all of the rhetoric about "learning styles" and so forth masks a comparative dearth of course material (which may derail their progress towards their degree) and resources available to these students (which siphon profits). Meanwhile, at BigStateU, student retention and academic vigor are mostly separate issues - high academic standards force some students out, but those that tough it out go on to prove the value of their education and their degree to their employers and to their children, and often pay more than the required student costs by donating to the school as alumni.

Ultimately, alumni will be judged on their writing skills, their ability to synthesize and evaluate information, and their dedication towards their careers and their own personal development. I think that four year colleges are far and away the best incubators for growing knowledge AND life skills, and the financial cost-benefit analysis of for-profit institutions over traditional four-year schools masks the thousands of intangible factors that made me into who I am, and currently make my students into who they will become.

But these advantages are not an entitlement. Instructors at BigStateU's across the country need to constantly challenge their students both professionally and personally, maintain high academic standards and teach their students with enthusiasm and passion. For-profit education will not go away because we are biased against it. It will only disappear when traditional college faculty step up to the plate and give their students an education that is worth supporting later in life, when they are paying taxes and receiving alumni donor solicitations in the mail.

For-profit schools attempt to best public and non-profit universities by being efficient, fast, and accessible. Thus, public and non-profit schools can only beat the for-profit schools by simply being better.